We're recording this edition of Red Lines on Wednesday afternoon and all around us we can see and hear the apparent crash and burn of Arlene Foster's political career. The numbers seem to be stacked against the DUP leader, but as of this moment, she hasn't thrown the towel in, though nor has she indicated that she intends to attempt to stay on and fight.

Then again, who knows where we could be by the end of this conversation.

I've got two seasoned political observers with me to try to capture the view from the high ground.

Both of them recently retired political editors, as it happens, Mark Devonport, formerly of BBC Northern Ireland, of course, and Ken Reid, formerly of UTV.

Welcome to you both, Mark. Briefly, just to get us started, is Arlene Foster's time at the helm finished?

Well, I keep on hearing this phrase that her leadership is hanging in the balance. It strikes me,

it's a balance that's a seetore with

Ken on one end and me on the other. And anybody who knows our respective sizes would know that I'd be

being jettisoned off towards the moon at that point. So I think that basically, yeah, the maths

are against her. I can't really see how she can survive at all. If there's any

discussions that are going on right now, it could only be about some kind of a soft landing,

certainly a softer landing that I would have from that metaphorical seesaw.

Ken, you've had a pretty good insight into the inner workings of the DEP over many, many

years. In your view, is Mrs. Foster's career now a busted flush?

Yes, it is.

There's no question about that.

I mean, some of the names have saying this letter are quite surprising.

People who have been previously close and very supportive to her.

So I think her, well, I know there's a time problem here, but yeah, Arlene Foster's time as the DUP, I think, has come to an end. It's only a case of how they handle it.

So this is our red lines with the difference. We're right in the middle of what looks like a political

convulsion within the

DUP and none of us would want to bet the House on precisely what happens next, but we can look at how

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