Outward: Slate's LGBTQ podcast - 6: Attacked | When We All Get to Heaven
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3.9 • 1.1K Ratings
🗓️ 12 November 2025
⏱️ 63 minutes
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Summary
San Francisco’s gay/lesbian community in the 1980s wasn’t just facing an AIDS crisis, they also struggled against ongoing anti-gay violence. In 1989, in the midst of a campaign to legally establish anti-gay violence as a hate crime, MCC San Francisco made headlines when their AIDS minister was attacked in her home. The city, the police department, and the LGBTQ community rallied around the church and the minister. And when they finally solved the puzzle of who did it, the answer shocked the church.
For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-6.
The voices from the service after the first attack include
Rev. Troy Perry, Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches – “If you come for one of us, you come for all of us.”
Kevin Calegari, Dignity San Francisco – “Somebody by the name of Jesus…”
Harry Britt, San Francisco City Supervisor – “It hurts to be reminded of the power of evil.”
Gayle Orr-Smith, representative of the Mayor’s Office – “I am moved when I hear you say you are an angry people.”
Rev. Duane Wilkerson, United Methodist Church – “But in the event that doubt has crept into your mind…”
Rev. Troy Perry, Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches – “And to the enemies who are attacking us…”
“The Call” is by George Herber with music by Vaughan Williams. The soloist is Bob Crocker.
“Nearer My God to Thee” is by Sarah Flowers Abrams.
Some links to good groups
Community United Against Violence – still working for safe communities for queer people.
National Alliance on Mental Illness LGBTQI Information Page
The Shanti Project - is a pioneering nonprofit that builds human connections to reduce isolation, enhance health and well-being, and improve quality of life. It innovated enduring models of attentive companionship to people facing the end of life through their work during the height of the AIDS crisis.
The Trevor Project – the leading suicide prevention and crisis intervention non-profit organization for LGBTQ+ young people.
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Production credits:
When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit http://heavenpodcast.org/credits.
This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org).
Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds.
The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco’s archive. It was performed by MCC-SF’s musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM.
Special thanks to Kelsy Pacha, Dr. Janis Whitlock, and Dr. Mary Hunt for consulting with us about this episode.
Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | I'm Christina Cauderucci, and this is Outward, Slate's show about queer life, culture, and |
| 0:09.8 | politics. Today, we bring you episode six of When We All Get to Heaven from Eureka Street Productions, |
| 0:16.7 | the story of MCC San Francisco and how it faced the personal, social, and political trials of the AIDS epidemic, |
| 0:23.9 | including the deaths of hundreds of its members. |
| 0:27.1 | This episode takes place in 1989. |
| 0:30.0 | MCC San Francisco made headlines that year when death threats were sent to the church and its AIDS minister was allegedly attacked in her home. The city and the LGBTQ community rallied around the church. |
| 0:41.3 | But as the story unfolded, the church had to reckon with how to restore community trust. |
| 0:46.3 | This story is complicated, painful at times, and deeply human. |
| 0:52.3 | Brian and I sat down afterward to talk through it. Slate Plus members |
| 0:56.5 | can hear that conversation after the episode. Episode 6 of when we all get to heaven after this. |
| 1:20.5 | Before we start today's episode, we want to let you know that this episode discusses physical and verbal violence against LGBTQ people. |
| 1:40.8 | Please take care when listening. On a Sunday evening in July 1989, MCC San Francisco's worship service started with an announcement. |
| 1:44.7 | It was read by a board member, Linton Stables. |
| 1:50.5 | In recent weeks, the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco and its staff have been subjected to written and telephone threats of the most vicious nature. |
| 1:55.3 | On Wednesday of this week, these verbal threats turned to physical violence. |
| 2:04.8 | Music these verbal threats turn to physical violence. Jack St. John, the preacher that evening, used the sermon to express his response to the news. |
| 2:11.8 | He was as emotional as Linton was a matter of fact. |
| 2:15.9 | This was my first thought. Why? |
| 2:21.1 | Why is this happening now when our evening service has grown |
| 2:24.4 | and when people have come to us for healing? |
| 2:27.9 | The violence had come after weeks of anonymous threats and mounting fears. |
| 2:33.7 | Kit Cherry, a minister in trading at the time, |
... |
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