Something else.

Please note there are some very emotional and distressing scenes within this podcast

that may not be suitable for everyone.

It feels manipulative and I think she started to see the reaction when we're just like,

oh, I got another thing.

This is another episode of How Did We Get Here?

The podcast where me, Claudia Winckman, talks to Professor Tanya Byron.

We look at some of the difficulties that people and their nearest and dearest come up against.

This is what happens.

Tarn talks to a guest face to face.

I'm listening in a separate room.

Occasionally, I will stop tape and ask Tanya why she went down certain routes

just to learn how the process of how as a clinical psychologist works too.

This time we meet Max and Anna.

They're married. They've got two children, Bella, until age five and 19 months.

They ask for help because their older daughter will only, and I mean only, do activities with Mum.

But as you'll hear, Tanya uncovers something about their dynamic as a couple that is very telling.

And you take the kind of, come on now, we've got to really address this.

And you're like, yeah, but you know, is that, is that fair?

Yeah, absolutely.

And who wins? Me.

Okay.

...