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Explain It to Me

Our complicated relationship with the flag

Explain It to Me

Vox Media Podcast Network

Education, Politics, News, Society & Culture

4.47.9K Ratings

🗓️ 6 July 2025

⏱️ 28 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Beyoncé and Kendrick Lamar openly celebrate the American flag. But a lot of Black Americans feel differently. What does that tell us about identity today? This episode was produced by Victoria Chamberlin, edited by Miranda Kennedy, fact-checked by Melissa Hirsch, engineered by Andrea Kristinsdottir and hosted by Jonquilyn Hill. Image of Kendrick Lamar performing at the Super Bowl LIX Halftime Show by Gregory Shamus/Getty Images.  If you have a question, give us a call on 1-800-618-8545 or send us a note here. Listen to Explain It to Me ad-free by becoming a Vox Member: vox.com/members. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

This episode is brought to you by On Investing, an original podcast from Charles Schwab.

0:05.8

I'm Kathy Jones, Schwab's chief fixed income strategist.

0:09.4

And I'm Lizanne Saunders, Schwab's chief investment strategist.

0:12.2

Between us, we have decades of experience studying the indicators that drive the economy

0:15.9

and how they can have a direct impact on your investments.

0:18.7

We know that investors have a lot of questions about the markets and the economy,

0:22.5

and we're here to help.

0:23.3

So download the latest episode and subscribe at Schwab.com slash on investing or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, my name's Al, and I have a question about the relationship between African Americans and the American flag.

0:49.5

I just been thinking about the Kendrick Lamar, performance, and really Beyonce's country album and how both of

0:55.7

them used the American flag, or at least its colors. And I'm just interested to see how that's

1:00.9

kind of evolved or where it sits today or tomorrow and yesterday. Anyway, I've been thinking

1:08.7

about this too. Anyone who knows me knows I'm a Beyonce fan.

1:13.4

By the time you hear this, I'll be recovering from her July 4th show outside D.C.

1:18.6

Beyonce famously doesn't do many interviews, but she's intentional about every choice she makes.

1:24.6

So a big concert on the fourth in the nation's capital isn't a coincidence.

1:30.6

With Cowboy Carter, Beyonce leaned into her American identity. And that was kind of surprising.

1:36.6

It's a weird time for America right now. We have ice raids, messing with birthright citizenship,

1:42.6

and getting in wars in the Middle East again.

1:48.0

But it's not just Beyonce with the Americana aesthetic. That's where Kyle Dennis comes in.

1:54.4

Last year, he wrote an article about artists making use of American flag imagery.

1:59.1

Not just Beyonce, but also the rapper Sexy Red, who

2:02.0

released a mixtape called Make America Sexy Again. I think part of it is probably because

...

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