Welcome to the Eric Metaxis show with your host, Eric Metaxus.

Folks, welcome to the Eric Metaxus show. I'm not often knocked back on my heels,

but whenever I get around my friend, Oz Guinness,

I confess, I know I hate to put Oz in that position.

But Oz, I respect and love you so much that that's how you make me feel.

You've come out with a new book.

It's a glorious idea. It's called

the Magna Carta of Humanity, Sinai's Revolutionary Faith and the Future of Freedom. My dear friend,

I was going to us welcome the program. Thank you, Eric. Always a joy to be on with you.

Well, I have to say, I've learned so much from you over the years,

which is an absolute fact, and you know it. And whenever I go anywhere almost, I talk about the

golden triangle of freedom and mention your name because it's one of the greatest ideas I've ever

encountered. And I remember when you first shared it with me, I thought, this sounds too good.

This must be famous and I've just missed it.

And you said, well, you know,

you're typically humble and diffident

in your British way.

I guess it's such an extraordinary idea.

You claim that the founders knew

of the Golden Triangle of Freedom, but that's not really true,

is it? Well, I found it in all the founders. They had different ideas of faith, of course,

and very different ideas of religion and public life. But when it came to sustaining freedom,

...