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Hi and welcome to SpyCast from the Secret Files of the International Spy Museum in Washington, D.C.

I'm Dr. Vint Houghton, the Museum's Historian and Curator.

Every week, Spycast brings you interesting conversation. Hottin, the Museum's Historian and Curator.

Every week, Spycast brings you interesting conversations with authors,

scholars, and practitioners who live in the world of global espionage.

If you have any questions, comments, or concerns about Spycast, or if you want to suggest someone who might be a good future guest, email us at spycast at spymuseum.org. That's Spycast at spymuseum.org. Also, if you like what you hear, and even if you don't,

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So we're joined today by Arthur Art Lindbergh, who's a former U.S. naval officer who in the late 1970s was involved in one of the most

consequential counterintelligence cases in U.S. history, working with the FBI and NIS,

which we all today know as NCIS,

as a double agent against the Soviets.

His biography is the conversation for this podcast.

So I'm going to leave the introduction at that

and get the ball rolling.

So welcome, Martin, thank you for taking the time to talk to us here on spycats.

Well, it's a pleasure to be here. Thank you. So for our listeners and many of them are still

working in government. So they weren't all that old in 1977.

They weren't necessarily reading the newspaper articles

...