One on One With Trump’s Black MAGA Pastor
Reveal
The Center for Investigative Reporting and PRX
4.7 • 8.7K Ratings
🗓️ 3 December 2025
⏱️ 41 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
More To The Story: Detroit pastor Lorenzo Sewell is one of the most prominent Black conservatives in President Donald Trump’s orbit. It all started last summer when the president visited Sewell’s 180 Church while campaigning in Detroit. A month later, Sewell spoke at the Republican National Convention. And in January, he prayed for the new president during his inauguration inside the US Capitol. As Sewell’s voice echoed around the domed rotunda, the prayer sounded familiar to many. That’s because Sewell adapted Martin Luther King Jr.’s famous “I Have a Dream” speech. As Trump dismantles DEI policies around the country and pushes efforts to erase Black history from schools and museums, Sewell remains one of the president’s most prominent Black defenders and argues that the Trump presidency is actually improving Black Americans’ lives. On this week’s More To The Story, Sewell sits down with host Al Letson to talk about his upbringing as a drug dealer in Detroit, his conversion to Christianity, and his inauguration prayer. Letson challenges Sewell’s ideas about racism, his support of Charlie Kirk, and his defense of the Trump administration’s rollback of DEI policies.
Producer: Josh Sanburn | Editor: Kara McGuirk-Allison | Theme music: Fernando Arruda and Jim Briggs | Copy editor: Nikki Frick | Digital producer: Artis Curiskis | Deputy executive producer: Taki Telonidis | Executive producer: Brett Myers | Executive editor: James West | Host: Al Letson
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Watch: I Spent a Week With Black Republicans (Mother Jones)
Listen: Red, Black, and Blue (Reveal)
Read: Trump Shuts Down Diversity Programs Across Government (Mother Jones)
Listen: The Bible Says So…or Does It? (More To The Story)
Watch: Rev. Lorenzo Sewell Delivers Benediction (PBS NewsHour via YouTube)
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| 0:00.0 | So I believe that racism is when you close the door of opportunity to people because of their skin color unintentionally or unintentionally or anti-racism. |
| 0:12.5 | And I believe President Trump is an anti-racist because he opened the door of opportunity to somebody like me in a context where nobody would vote for him. |
| 0:24.5 | On this week's more to the story, Pastor Lorenzo Sewell, the Detroit religious leader who |
| 0:29.2 | prayed for President Trump at his second inauguration. |
| 0:32.5 | Sewell tries to make the case that Trump's presidency is making black Americans' lives |
| 0:37.4 | better. And let's just say it was |
| 0:40.2 | a lively conversation. You won't want to miss it. |
| 0:48.1 | Hey, it's Al, and 2025 has been a brutal year for public media. I got to tell you, it is not easy to produce fearless journalism at a time when truth itself is under siege. The one thing it takes is community. That's you, your support, your time, your willingness to listen, share, and engage. |
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| 2:08.0 | slash 2026. Thank you. This is more to the story. I'm Al Ledson. Last year, there was a lot of talk about something I was always skeptical about, rising support from |
| 2:34.8 | black men for Donald Trump. |
| 2:37.0 | Here at Reveal, we did an entire episode about Black Republicans. |
| 2:41.4 | On more to the story, you heard from my colleague Garrison Hayes, who had interviewed a black |
| 2:46.2 | pastor who was loudly making the case for Trump. |
| 2:49.5 | If a black person said, well, pastor, Donald Trump is racist, the Republican Party is racist, |
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