Before we get to the show today, I have a favorite ask.

If you're a regular listener, I hope you'll take a moment.

Since Biden was elected, the intercept has lost more than 4,000 monthly donors, that's

a 20% decline.

As a non-profit news outlet, we depend on readers and listeners like you to keep the lights

on.

Deconstructed listeners like you know that this is no time to look away.

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regardless of which party sits in the White House.

To get back on track, we've set an ambitious goal of reaching 15,000 sustaining members

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in investigative journalism, not just today, but well into the future.

Become a monthly donor right now at theintercept.com slash give.

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Thanks so much and now on to the show.

All right, on this week's podcast, we are welcoming back to the show, Ari Ravenhoth.

Ari, thanks for joining us again.

Third time, hopefully a charm.

Third time, both of your previous appearances have been, have been listener hits.

It's hard for me to think of people as other than readers, but listeners.

If people want to hear more about Ari's kind of his professional background, check out

...