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The LRB Podcast

On Politics: Myths of Populism

The LRB Podcast

London Review of Books

Society & Culture

4.4579 Ratings

🗓️ 3 June 2026

⏱️ 72 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

The transformations of European politics over the past twenty years, including Britain’s vote to leave the EU and the rise of post-Soviet strongmen, are often explained as part of a ‘wave’ of populism. But as Jan-Werner Müller argues, populism is best understood as a form of politics that claims to represent the ‘real’ people and delegitimise its opponents, rather than a catch-all way to describe far-right and left-wing movements. In this episode, Müller talks to James Butler about why misleading interpretations of populism have proved so dangerous for traditional parties, and the role of technocracy and digital platforms in the rise of anti-democratic politics. From the LRB Subscribe to the LRB: ⁠⁠https://lrb.me/subslrbpod Close Readings podcast: ⁠https://lrb.me/crlrbpod⁠ LRB Audiobooks: ⁠https://lrb.me/audiobookslrbpod⁠ Bags, binders and more at the LRB Store: ⁠https://lrb.me/storelrbpod⁠ Get in touch: podcasts@lrb.co.uk Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

Beyond Words is a festival of literature organised by the French Institute in South Kensington in London,

0:07.0

from the 8th to the 22nd of June, bringing together writers from across the French-speaking world

0:12.0

and beyond, from Beirut to Kamchatka, whose work is reaching new audiences in English.

0:18.3

The festival features talks, readings and films, and the line-up includes the

0:22.7

anthropologist, Natasia Martin, the novelists Saus Chalendon, Camille de Peretti and Ben Faccini,

0:28.9

the BBC correspondent Fergal Keen, the crime writers, Olivier Norick, Abia Mukherjee and Joseph

0:34.7

Incardonnais, and the writers and football enthusiasts, Valentin de D'Dont and

0:39.3

Philippe O'Clair. Join them and others at Beyond Words at the French Institute in June.

0:48.2

One of my favourite English expressions is to talk of someone missing the wood for the trees.

0:54.5

And it's a special risk for people who pay close attention to politics,

0:58.2

that you can be so close to the news cycle that, somewhat paradoxically,

1:01.7

you miss the larger scale changes behind individual events

1:05.0

and eventually find yourself completely politically lost.

1:09.9

Politics across Europe has hardly lacked dramatic change over the past

1:14.0

couple of decades. Often these have prompted commentary in the form of puzzlement. How could Britain

1:19.6

vote to leave the European Union? How could post-Soviet states vote for strongmen? How could

1:25.2

post-fascist parties so easily launder their reputations?

1:29.5

How has socialism made a comeback? And why aren't people just sensible or rational?

1:35.7

Sometimes the many-headed conceptual hydra of populism is invoked as an explanation for this,

1:42.4

especially as many parties set themselves up as the

1:45.9

representatives of the real, the only real people. Most often there is some anxiety behind

1:52.5

these questions, anxiety about the difficulty of sustaining democratic politics in an increasingly

...

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