For most of this year, I've been sharing some of the interviews I've been doing for

background research for my book, going infinite, the rise and fall of a new tycoon, the tycoon

being Sam Bankman-free, the founder of the cryptocurrency exchange FTX.

It's been a kind of crazy journey, and this series has been an experiment for me.

I've always done these kinds of background interviews and their interviews where I know it's not

going to end up in the book, I'm just trying to educate myself, but I've never done them on

stage, so to speak, and I appreciate you listening in. It's forced me to think creatively about these

things, and the experts I've talked to have been really gracious with their time.

Well now the book's almost done, and I have just one more conversation to share,

but it may be the most important one I've done in this series. This is on background from

Against the Rules. I'm Michael Lewis. Sam Bankman-free faces federal charges of stealing

billions of dollars of customer funds. His trial is supposed to begin this fall,

but what sort of sentence is he likely to get, really? How are the prosecutors building the case

against him? And how can his defense team prepare him for what looks like it will be a really

complicated trial? Rebecca Murmolstein is the very best person to answer my questions,

short of the prosecutors themselves, who aren't talking to me on background or otherwise.

These days, Rebecca's a defense attorney at the law firm of O'Melvin and Myers,

but before joining the firm, she was a prosecutor in the very southern district of New York that's

prosecuting Sam Bankman-free. My father used to practice law, and he absolutely hated it,

so I couldn't stop myself from asking Rebecca would drew her to the profession in the first place.

I was always the kind of kid who liked to argue the point, but somewhat coincidentally,

I was a senior in college. I thought I was going to take the summer off, and my best friend

...