NUREMBERG and THE NAZI AND THE PSYCHIATRIST—Jack El-Hai

True Murder: The Most Shocking Killers

Dan Zupansky

True Crime, News Commentary, Documentary, News, Society & Culture

4 • 2.7K Ratings

🗓️ 3 November 2025

⏱️ 57 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

The film NUREMBERG, to be released November 7th, 2025 is an American drama written, co-produced and edited by James Vanderbilt. It is based on the 2013 book, THE NAZI AND THE PSYCHIATRIST by Jack El Hai..
In 1945, after his capture at the end of the Second World War, Hermann Göring arrived at an American-run detention center in war-torn Luxembourg, accompanied by sixteen suitcases and a red hatbox. The suitcases contained all manner of paraphernalia: medals, gems, two cigar cutters, silk underwear, a hot water bottle, and the equivalent of 1 million in cash. Hidden in a coffee can, a set of brass vials housed glass capsules containing a clear liquid and a white precipitate: potassium cyanide. Joining Göring in the detention center were the elite of the captured Nazi regime. Grand Admiral Dönitz; armed forces commander Wilhelm Keitel and his deputy Alfred Jodl; the mentally unstable Robert Ley; the suicidal Hans Frank; the pornographic propagandist Julius Streicher. Fifty-two senior Nazis in all, of whom the dominant figure was Göring.
To ensure that the villainous captives were fit for trial at Nuremberg, the US army sent an ambitious army psychiatrist, Captain Douglas M. Kelley, to supervise their mental well-being during their detention. Kelley realized he was being offered the professional opportunity of a lifetime: to discover a distinguishing trait among these arch-criminals that would mark them as psychologically different from the rest of humanity. So began a remarkable relationship between Kelley and his captors, told here for the first time with unique access to Kelley's long-hidden papers and medical records.
Kelley's was a hazardous quest, dangerous because against all his expectations he began to appreciate and understand some of the Nazi captives, none more so than the former Reichsmarshall, Hermann Göring. Evil had its charms.
Joining me to discuss, NUREMBERG and the book the film is based on THE NAZI AND THE PSYCHIATRIST: Hermann Goring, Dr. Douglas M. Kelley, and a Fatal Meeting of Minds at the End of WWll—Jack El-Hai

Transcript

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0:00.0	You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking killers in true crime history,
0:12.5	and the authors that have written about them.
0:15.8	Gacy, Bundy, Dommer, the Nightstalker, BTK.
0:32.6	Every week, another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in true crime history. True murder. With your host, journalist and author, Dan Zupansky.
0:40.3	Good evening. The film Nuremberg, to be released November 7, 2025, is an American drama written, co-produced, and directed by James Vanderbilt.
0:52.3	It is based on the 2013 book, The Nazi and the Psychiatrist,
0:58.0	by Jack L. High. In 1945, after his capture at the end of the Second World War,
1:06.0	Herman Gering arrived at an American-run detention center in war-torn Luxembourg, accompanied by
1:12.6	16 suitcases and a red hatbox. The suitcases contained all manner of paraphernalia,
1:20.6	metals, gems, two cigar cutters, silk underwear, and the equivalent of $1 million in cash.
1:29.3	Hidden in a coffee can, a set of brass vials housed glass capsules containing a clear
1:35.1	liquid and a white precipitate, potassium cyanide.
1:41.4	Joining Gearing in a detention center were the elite of the captured Nazi regime.
1:47.0	Grand Amaral Donets, armed forces commander Wilhelm Kytel, and his deputy Alfred
1:54.0	Jodell, the mentally unstable Robert Lay, the suicidal Hans Frank, and the pornographic propagandist Julius Stryker, 52 Nazis in all,
2:06.6	whom the dominant figure was garing.
2:09.6	To ensure the villainous captives were fit for trial in Nuremberg, the U.S. Army sent
2:15.6	an ambitious army psychiatrist, Captain Douglas M. Kelly, to supervise their
2:21.5	mental well-being during their detention. Kelly realized he was being offered the professional
2:27.6	opportunity of a lifetime to discover a distinguishing trait among these arch criminals
2:33.3	that would mark them as psychologically
2:35.8	different from the rest of humanity. So began a remarkable relationship between Kelly and his captors,
	...

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