No one way works, it will take all of us shoving at the thing from all sides to bring

it down.

You're listening to Navara FM here on Resonance 104.4 FM London's finest radio station

I am James Butler. Those lines are from the poet Diane Deprema in her revolutionary

letter number nine and perhaps the sharpest and most succinct statement on political

organising that I know. Deprema died in October of last year and if you're not familiar

with her work, I really recommend finding some of it and reading it or listening to her

talk about her life as a woman poet and a mother among the beats. But it's not Deprema

we're talking about today although maybe one day we should do a read through of the revolutionary

letters for a special hour of radio. But those lines form up the epigram for one of the

chapters in a new book on political organisation, neither vertical nor horizontal. With his author,

I am speaking today. My name is Rodrigo Nunes. I'm currently speaking from Australia where I

happen to be a Covid refugee from Brazil that usually I'd be speaking from Brazil if assuming

Brazil will continue to exist in the future. In a way, political organisation has never been far

from our discussions here on Navara over the past 10 years. If you delve way back into our archive,

you can hear me argue with Aaron over electoralism, the political importance of workplace

organising, or where the limits of street base assemblies might be, or the history of mass parties

and so on and so on and so on. And all of these are questions of organisation about how and who

organises and for what? Questions about which way works. And our focus on those questions isn't

accidental. It reflects the way in which the movement over the past decade or so has pushed

against the limits of its organisation of forms and found itself bouncing around between them between

the claimed horizontalism of anarchist inspired movements from climate camp to occupy,

...