Notion's CEO wants you to demand better from your tools

Decoder with Nilay Patel

Vox Media Podcast Network

Business, Technology

4.2 • 3.4K Ratings

🗓️ 11 August 2025

⏱️ 57 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

This is Casey Newton, founder and editor of Platformer and cohost of the Hard Fork podcast. This is the second episode of my productivity-focused Decoder series I’m doing while Nilay is out on parental leave. Today, I’m talking with Notion cofounder and CEO Ivan Zhao. I’ve followed Notion for quite some time now — I’m a big fan, and I use Notion as part of my workflow with Platformer. So I was very excited to get Ivan on the show to discuss his philosophy on productivity, how he’s grown his company over the last decade, and where he sees the space going in the future. Read the full interview transcript on The Verge. Links: Introducing Notion AI for Work | Notion Notion Mail is a minimalist but powerful take on email | Verge Notion’s new Q&A feature lets you ask an AI about your notes | Verge Notion takes on AI notetakers with its own transcription feature | TechCrunch The impossible dream of good workplace software | Decoder When AI has better taste than you | Julie Zhuo / The Looking Glass Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was editor by Xander Adams. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	Support for this show comes from OnePassword. If you're an IT or security pro, managing devices,
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0:14.8	conquer SaaS sprawl and Shadow IT by discovering every app your team uses, managed or not.
0:21.3	Take the first step to better security for your team.
0:24.7	Learn more at onepassword.com slash podcast offer.
0:29.4	That's onepassword.com slash podcast offer, all lowercase.
0:37.9	Introducing the new Dell AIP powered by the Intel Core Ultra processor.
0:43.0	It helps do your busy work for you so you can fast forward through enhancing security,
0:48.4	simplifying IT management, automating workflows,
0:51.4	synthesizing data, improving user experience or responding to James's
0:54.9	long emails.
0:57.4	Ooh.
0:59.4	Leaving all the time in the world for the things you actually want to do.
1:02.6	No offence, James.
1:03.8	Get a new Dell AIPC at Dell.com.uk slash AIPC.
1:09.3	Dell.
1:10.0	How those ahead, stay ahead.
1:15.4	Here is a big existential question for every media company today.
1:20.6	Do they fight the AI tech overlords or do they just take their money?
1:25.3	So far, most of them are taking the money, but a few are fighting.
1:29.5	One of them is Zip Davis.
1:31.9	This is Peter Kafka, the host of channels.
	...

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