Whether to have children, it's a deeply personal decision that our closest family members and

the general public seem to have a lot of opinions about how we make it. In our episode today,

you'll hear how one couple thought about this and what happened when they reached an impasse.

Audio producer Helena de Groot takes us inside her marriage,

their intense, fast love story,

and their easy, sweet life together as a couple,

and how that papered over the fundamental difference they had about kids,

until an unplanned pregnancy, and then an abortion, and then a

divorce after eight years of marriage. Helena did not want kids, really ever, but in her new

audio series called Creation Myth from the CBC, she also shows us how, for a woman in her 30s, with pressure coming from all sides,

from inside a relationship, from friends, from extended family, this was not a one-time decision,

but one she had to keep revisiting, not just to explain to others, but also to herself.

People keep saying this is the biggest love you'll ever feel,

or if it's not hierarchical, there is no love like the love that you will feel for your child.

And it's very scary to be all about love and then walk away from what so many people tell me is the biggest one of all.

This is Death, sex, and money.

The show from Slate about the things we think about a lot

and need to talk about more.

I'm Anna Sale. Hi there.

Are you also in a closet?

I also have like a curtainish backdrop.

Helena de Groot and I are in the same field and work under very similar conditions,

...