Did the NIH have any reason to behave the way it did during COVID? Yes, the answer is yes. There were

350 million reasons for them to do what they did. And I think it caused harm.

Hello everyone. Dr. Chris Martinson here.

Thanks for coming by and it's good to be back with you here today.

Listen, we're going to be talking about incentives today and this FOIA request by Open

the Books who figured out that the NIH has been receiving kickbacks from pharma company.

So here we go.

Let me see if I can get my drawing tool out here because I love to draw.

So let's go here.

Episode 61 today, perverse incentives.

That's what I'm talking about.

I think they cause deaths and suffering because if you know, the United States didn't

just have a bad outcome relative to other

developed nations. It had bad outcomes compared to any other nations, developed or not.

And so there's a reason for that, and we're going to get into that reason here today.

But first, let's make sure we have this shared understanding.

I love this quote by Charlie Munger, right-hand man for decades of Warren Buffett. Charlie said, show me the incentive and I will show you

the outcome. Meaning very simply, this is just human nature, something that we've known about since

time immemorial. And when humans have various incentives, they behave in certain ways. It's just how it is.

All species do this. In fact, you know, if you want to train dogs, if you want to train birds,

if you want to train horses, it doesn't matter any organism that responds to incentives is trainable

in a certain way. So, humans are no different. And this has been the

...