Welcome back to the home of the oxymoron. Evil genius. He asked the newspaper to print his obituary early so he'd enjoy it. That's like hiding at your own funeral. Yeah, it's a big, great gig. I'm Russell Kane. Join me to weigh in on whether the biggest players in history are more evil or genius. Becoming that rich, I'd say that at some level of genius. It also helps that it's a long time ago, right?

It's like the podcast version of telling your kids the ice cream van plays music when it's out

of ice cream.

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Hello. Tonight we've come to the British Film Institute to raise some ghosts.

Their father was the novelist Henry James, who conjured them for his novella, the turn of the screw,

the unsettling story of a dubious governess, two corrupted children and a pair

of dead servants who won't stay dead. Tonight, as part of the BBC's sound of cinema season,

we're exploring a work that brought them to the big screen. Jack Clayton's The Innocence,

a masterpiece of Gothic cinema with Deborah Carr as Miss Giddens, the

governess, and Peter Wingard and Clydie Jessup as the servants, Quint and Miss Jessel.

Let me introduce you to our panel. The writer and horror historian Jeremy Dyson, late of the

League of Gentleman, the psychoanalyst Susie Orbach, the cultural historian Christopher Fraling,

author of a new study of the film,

and two actors whose performances in the picture are one of its most compelling sources of unease.

Clydie Jessup, who played Miss Jessel,

and one of the most charismatic actors of his generation, Peter Wingard.

Thank you. generation, Peter Wingard. Now, before we start talking about this film, I want you to do something for me.

I want you to close your eyes.

The film begins with a dark overture.

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