Welcome back to the home of the oxymoron. Evil genius. He asked the newspaper to print his obituary early so he'd enjoy it. That's like hiding at your own funeral. Yeah, it's a big, great gig. I'm Russell Kane. Join me to weigh in on whether the biggest players in history are more evil or genius. Becoming that rich, I'd say that is some level of genius. It also helps

that it's a long time ago, right? It's like the podcast version of telling your kids the ice cream

van plays music when it's out of ice cream. Listen to evil genius on BBC sounds. This is a download

from the BBC on the occasion of the death of Nelson Mandela.

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please go to BBC.com.ukuk forward slash radio three.

It's hard hearing of Nelson Mandela's death

not to think of the end of King Leia when Kent says of Lear,

the wonder is he hath endured so long.

A short while ago, I spoke to the,

and a short while ago means a couple of months ago,

I spoke to the South African playwright Athel Fugard,

best known for his political plays,

opposing the apartheid system in South Africa.

I talked to him not only about Mandela,

but about the period through which he and Mandela had lived.

And I asked him when he first became aware of Nelson Mandela.

My first awareness of Nelson,

and it was a very, very interesting situation came from my very, very dear friend.

In fact, we in the family thought of it as a member of our family.

I called her sister and she called me brother.

And that was Mary Benson, a name which I think will resonate for a lot of South Africans of my generation and my age

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