You could make the mistake of thinking that the phone hacking scandal is about phone hacking. It isn't. That's just the beginning of the thing.

This was always obviously a story about power.

You have this former Australian with an American passport who owns four national newspapers and a national news channel. And he has access to politicians of a kind

ordinary people can't dream of and he has power to influence what that

government decides to do. These are selfish ruthless people. I don't think

they worry too much. It's kind of scary bearing in mind the myths we tell about ourselves that we live in this democratic society.

The power of a bully in a school playground and once this bully has beaten up two or three kids and made Pulp atison,

the other kids get the message and they set out to placate the bully. It's about fear.

Oh,

Oh,

Oh, right.

Do you listen to Bob Dylan,

but you know he had ages ago, mid-60s had this song about even the president

of the United States

sometimes must have to stand naked. But I use that at the end of the story, even the

President of News Court sometimes may have to stand naked.

That is the first,'ve heard of that.

What do you make of Julian in the last three years, you know, watching him at the embassy in London and

his health degrade and watching WikiLeaks?

He's a very clever guy, but I think it's such a damn shame. Sometimes he just does crazy stupid things. He shouldn't have gone off to these other news organization. That was stupid. And he could have made much better decisions about these Swedish women. I wish he'd just

come out and gone back to Sweden and faced it and he should treat people better. Well, all preachers preach of evil fates, teachers teach that knowledge weights can lead to

a hundred dollar plates, goodness hides behind its gates, but even the president of the United States sometimes must have to stand naked.

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