Most I want to emphasize that most of what theorists do is wrong.

And one of the main sort of in my view most important things about a theorist is they should be willing to recognize when they've gone wrong.

Thank you everybody for joining me today on what is going to be a mind-blowing, a mind-expanding conversation with the inimitable, the redoubtable,

the incomparable, Neil Turock, well I've known for decades now, although I can't believe it. He doesn't seem to age.

And we discussed so many fascinating topics that we actually had to agree as you'll hear to a part two

episode and maybe even more and I hope to visit him in Edinburgh at the end of or maybe beginning of the next year or so maybe I'll do it in person, that'll be super fun, right?

But this conversation incorporated our description of the early universe in an alternative

paradigm to the dominant inflationary universe paradigm that listeners to this

podcast know in love. We talked about arguments why his friend Sir Roger

Penrose, past guest on the podcast,

could have been spectacularly right from the beginning,

but abandoned his quest to understand

the low entropy conditions of the early universe

in favor of what Roger calls the conformal cyclic

cosmology and why Neil thinks that's wrong. It's pretty fascinating to hear him

kind of not anything other than respectfully criticize his former mentor and our current mentor and friend of the show.

We talk about quantum mechanics, consciousness, we even got into alien life in the cosmos and how tectonic plate movements

lubricated by life itself are really crucial to the origin of technological life

on Earth, but that had to be relegated to part two to get into more detail.

For now, I want you to really sit back and enjoy this, this will be a two-part episode in part one we get into the fundamental

parsimony the economy of the physical laws of nature and why Neil and his

colleagues think the universe may instead of being complex, Baroque, and overburdened by parameters might actually be incredibly simple.

...