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Welcome to the Eric Mataxas Show with your host Eric Mataxas.

This is the Eric Mataxas Show. You know how much I love the subject of science and I've become enamored of the discovery institute because they seem to publish books

that I find fascinating. Recently I got one in the mail from the discovery institute. The title is Taking Leave of Darwin.

The author is Neil Thomas and I was particularly enjoying the book when I got the idea that what if I could have Neil Thomas on this program and we could all enjoy a conversation with him.

We have him now from Mary Old England actually from from Reading England near London. Neil Thomas welcome to this program.

Thanks for having me.

I loved your book. I love the way you write. I love the subject of course I'm fascinated with with natural selection the idea of it and what science is is revealing more and more and what we're hearing about very little but more and more through folks like you in the discovery institute.

So if you don't mind tell my audience before you came to the subject. What is it that you do you're you're really an eclectic thinker you've written on Wagner's operas.

What do you what do you do when you're not thinking about the subject of Darwin?

I am a retired academic and my subject was German language literature and European literature in a wider context.

I've been retired some 12 years ago and since then I've been essentially sort of starting a second life I've had a little bit of commercial experience in the world I've got a portfolio of rental properties and so on.

I thought it was important to diversify a bit from the academic life in fact I never thought I would write another book until I was in tell to do so by finding out what I thought was a deficiency of Darwinism.

So what led you I mean to be a professor on German language and literature I know you've written on the has it pronounced knee knee belonging leads.

I have the need for the knee belong and yeah the knee belong and you what led you from the subject of German language and literature into Darwinism.

I was totally unexpected and very surprising I swore blue blind to my wife that I would never write another word because I thought it was more important to diversify my life a bit.

But I think that I found that I was was getting dissatisfied with what was being put out as the party line on Darwinism.

I do remember when I was in post 20 years ago in Oxford literature academic using word means to refer to cultural influences and I thought why on earth would you use the word means when the word cultural influence or osmosis or whatever you like might might do justice to it.

I mean we had enough pretentious stuff anyway in literary criticism and I thought why am why am port stuff in the biological realm but more viscerally than that.

I think in the last few years I can't I can't remember when but I had I had a kind of I woke up with a kind of shock like you like it like you do when you're falling you know you have this feeling of falling in your sleep.

I thought this this so Darwinism can't be right everything must have a first cause whether you call it God or cosmic principle or whatever and I began to reframe my understanding of Darwinism in the light of that extreme dream.

In the light of what I miss that in the light of the dream that I had of of of a panic that I felt that something in this life must have a first cause it must have a creator you can't have an effect lot of cause in good logic.

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