Neil deGrasse Tyson on UFOs, Government Files, and the Physics of Alien Claims
The Michael Shermer Show
Michael Shermer
4.3 • 1K Ratings
🗓️ 16 May 2026
⏱️ 75 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Neil deGrasse Tyson returns to The Michael Shermer Show to talk UFOs, aliens, government files, eyewitness testimony, and his new book Take Me to Your Leader: Perspectives on Your First Alien Encounter.
The conversation moves from the limits of eyewitness testimony to why secret military files are not evidence of hidden alien bodies, why high-G turns would turn biological pilots into "a pile of goo," why the universe almost certainly contains life elsewhere, and why the real question is not whether aliens exist—but whether anyone has actually produced one.
Neil deGrasse Tyson is an astrophysicist and the director of the Hayden Planetarium at the American Museum of Natural History, where he has served since 1996. Dr. Tyson is also the host and cofounder of the Emmy-nominated popular podcast StarTalk and its spinoff StarTalk Sports Edition, which combine science, humor, and pop culture. He is a recipient of twenty-three honorary doctorates, the Public Welfare Medal from the National Academy of Sciences, and the Distinguished Public Service Medal from NASA. Asteroid 13123 Tyson is named in his honor. His new book is Take Me to Your Leader: Perspectives on Your First Alien Encounter.
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Until you show me an alien, it's a belief system. |
| 0:03.0 | So what is your answer to the Fermi paradox? Where is everybody? |
| 0:06.0 | Assuming they're not here yet. |
| 0:07.0 | The one that I'd like best is the one that has geopolitical implications. |
| 0:12.0 | And this was first put forth by Steve Soder, a colleague of mine. |
| 0:15.0 | It has to do with, let's say you do figure out how to colonize planets. |
| 0:24.5 | So the way you would do it is you launch a rocket from one planet, it goes to another planet. |
| 0:24.9 | And then you make two rockets, and then you launch to two planets from there. |
| 0:28.6 | And each of those builds two rockets, and then you do... |
| 0:31.1 | So it doubles, okay? |
| 0:33.4 | There's not many doubling times before you can completely populate 100% of the planets in the galaxy. |
| 0:41.3 | You could do that in a much smaller time than the lifetime of the galaxy itself. |
| 0:45.6 | So where are they? |
| 0:46.8 | So the argument is the primary reason why anything is classified is, especially with regard to equipment, |
| 0:53.6 | is so that our enemy adversaries do not know the precision with which we can make an observation or a measurement. |
| 1:01.0 | It's not that we have some craft that is completely un-owner, it's generally, it's the specs on the thing that was designed that gets classified, just so people know. |
| 1:13.7 | The laws of physics that nowhere in the universe where we have seen matter and energy interact have been a violation of these laws. |
| 1:22.5 | So, we have no expectation that an alien of this universe is violating physical laws routinely, period. |
| 1:34.8 | Hey, everybody. It's Michael Shermer time for another episode of the Michael Shermer show. |
| 1:38.9 | My returning guest today is the champion, |
| 1:42.2 | returning champion Neil deGrasse Tyson. |
| 1:44.7 | I think this is your third or fourth time on the show. |
... |
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