The question I have is what is your opinion about the government having secrets that

like people, just citizens don't know? And also on top of that, what is your opinion of like

the government trying to get access to cell phones?

You know, the government is by the people, supposed to be for the people.

So it depends on what the secrets are, but, you know, if it's not something that's really,

you know, really detrimental to the security of the country, then there's no reason for it to be a secret.

I'm Ben Hamm. And I'm Dahlia Bavalli. there's no reason for it to be a secret.

I'm Ben Ham.

And I'm Dahlia Beta.

We're your hosts as we navigate the deep waters of humanity.

And listen to the stories no one ever tells.

You are entering the secret room.

I'm pretty sure I got put on an NSA watch list when I tweeted about this episode.

Hashtag Goals!

This episode is Edward Snowden's wet dream.

It's WikiLeaks 2.0.

It's a whistleblower's Wonderland.

Okay, I may be overdoing it a little.

It's none of those things. In fact, this is the first secret room episode that doesn't revolve around a specific secret.

Today we'll be discussing the concept of national secrets, why we have to have them, how they impact our government, foreign policy, and you and me.

My guest, Michael, is a former government contractor and intelligence analyst.

He no longer works in that profession or any related profession,

...