Hey, what's up everybody?

Joe here.

Psychedelics today on the show, Kyle and I interview Natalie Ginsburg.

Natalie is the MAPS policy and advocacy manager.

And we have a really cool discussion with her about the state of drugs kind of internationally,

a lot of other really cool subjects.

We get into some Ibogaine discussion, talk a little bit about the Trump administration

and the future of drug policy for the next four or so years to see what that looks like.

And let's give you her bio here. Natalie earned her

master's in social work from Columbia University in 2014 and her bachelor's in history from Yale

University in 2011. At Columbia, Natalie served as a policy fellow with the Drug Policy Alliance,

where she helped legalize medical marijuana in her home state of New York and worked to end New York's racist marijuana arrests.

Natalie has also worked as a court-mandated therapist for individuals arrested for prostitution and drug-related offenses,

and as a middle school guidance counselor at an NYC public school.

Natalie's clinical work with trauma survivors spurred her

interest in psychedelic assisted therapy, which she believes can ease a wide variety of both

mental and physical elements by addressing the root cause of individuals' difficulties rather than

their symptoms. Through her work at MAPS, Natalie advocates for research to provide evidence-based

alternatives to both the war on drugs and the current mental health paradigm. As you can see,

she's pretty well versed in this material. And as we'll get into in a moment, she even got to go

to the recent Vienna, what do they call this, commission on narcotic drugs in Vienna,

and a really interesting, you know, once in a blue moon UN conference on narcotics. I know psychedelics aren't

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