Welcome to the OnScript Podcast, your home for world-class conversations on scripture and theology, where you get to meet some of the best in the field. Visit us at OnScript. Study. Say hello on Twitter at OnScript Podcast and stop by our Facebook page at Facebook.com slash OnScript.

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the OnScript podcast.

This is Matt Lynch coming to you from Regent College in Vancouver.

We have a brand new episode here with the one and only Michael Bird, who's been on the podcast

before.

And NTI Right, this is his first time on, so it's good to have him doing an episode.

I also want to let you know that, or remind you that we have another

podcast called Biblical World that focuses on the history, culture, cultural background and

archaeology of the Bible, so I hope you'll check that one out and that you enjoy it. And also,

thanks to all of you who support the podcast by liking and sharing and spreading the word.

We really appreciate that.

So thanks so much for listening and enjoy the episode.

Welcome back to On Script.

I want to start with a quote from the book Jesus and the Powers.

Yes, you want to avoid the evils of Constantine in Christendom. Instead of seeking influence in the halls of power, you want to be the angry prophet on the margins, speaking truth to power. All well and good. But what happens when the power listens? What happens when the power where the people ask you to sit on a committee, contribute to an investigation, run a program, advise on policy, or serve as a chaplain?

That kind of absolute separation of church and state is fine if you want to be a critic making snarky criticisms on the sidelines, but if you want to change the game, you need skin in the game.

This is Matthew Bates, professor of theology at Quincy University.

But hey, some personal career news to share with all of you at OnScript.

I'm transitioning to a no-role professor of New Testament at Northern Seminary.

I'm excited to join Northern.

Well, after finding time zones and schedules,

we've emerged victorious to record today's episode, two of my favorite scholars or my guests,

...