Welcome to the Creative Pen podcast. I'm Joanna Penn, thriller author and creative entrepreneur,

bringing you interviews, inspiration and information on writing craft and creative business.

You can find the episode show notes, your free author blueprint, and lots more at thecreativepen.com. And that's Penn with a

double N. And here's the show. Hello creatives. I'm Joanna Penn. And this is episode number

811 of the podcast. And it is Sunday the 1st of June 2025 as I record this. We are almost at half a year, which is always crazy to consider.

So in today's show, I talk to Jennifer Roy Franco Lee about music, writing and the mind-body connection.

You couldn't get a more different episode than last week, which I really like.

We talk about whether creating with music is different from creating with words,

how the mind-body connection affects our work and also our wider experience of life,

and perhaps what might be causing us pain, as well as dealing with performance anxiety when speaking and more. So that's coming

up in the interview section. In writing and publishing things. First up, hats off to Taylor Swift,

who is a great example of an independent creator running one of the world's biggest, most significant entertainment businesses by a creator.

And this week, Taylor bought back the rights to her first six albums, saying,

all of the music I've ever made now belongs to me.

Which is so great because this is one of the keystones of the indie

creator career. And by the way, I'm not a Swifty. Like I could name one or two of Taylor Swift songs.

I just think she is a great example of someone who is both a creator and a business woman. So if you own and control your intellectual property rights,

you can make all kinds of creative and business choices along the way

without asking for permission because you are in charge.

And then, of course, you can license things yourself,

you can make money in different ways,

or you can sell them all over again.

...