I'm Kate Winkler Dawson. I'm a journalist who's spent the last 25 years writing about

true crime. And I'm Paul Holtz, a retired cold case investigator who's worked some of America's most complicated cases and solved them.

Each week I present Paul with one of history's most compelling true crimes.

And I weigh in using modern forensic techniques to bring new

insights to old mysteries. Together using our individual expertise we're

examining historical true crime cases through a 21st century lens.

Some are solved and some are cold.

Very cold.

This is buried bones. the ones. Hey Paul. Hey Kate, how are you today? I'm doing well. How about you? I am hanging in there. I want to jump into talking about a main character in the case that we're going to talk about and it's a pathologist

named Bernard Spillsbury who I'm sure has resonated with you because he was in two of our

cases so he was in two of our cases.

So he was in the Crumbull's Beach case

and he was in the Dr. Crippin case.

So Spillsbury has come up and I've said that he's just been incredibly respected.

Do you remember him and kind of hearing his name?

Yeah, you know, the name's very familiar.

I do vaguely remember his role in most notably the Crippin case however in terms of his career everything he's done I really am at a loss

That's okay you know he was well known in his time and I'm sure he pops up for pathologists in history when they're

studying pathology. My question to you is you know when you first started to

explore the idea of being in law enforcement investigation, forensics, all of that stuff.

Did you veer towards pathology or what was your biggest interest at first when you started thinking,

oh, this is a field I'd like to go into?

...