You're listening to a program from BBC Radio 4.

Good evening. And welcome to a very different moral maze, not live from our Bear Pit

Pit Studio and Broadcasting House, but recorded at Queen Elizabeth Grammar School at

Favisham in Kent, and not just doing the programme in front of pupils and staff of this and the Abbey School next door,

but we're actually replacing our regular panel with four six-formers.

Why here?

Well, Tom Fin Kelsey is head of social sciences at the school.

What part does the Mor maze program play in the

school curriculum? Well, it plays a part in a number of our subjects. As a politics teacher,

particularly I tend to use clips in the moral maze quite often in my lessons, particularly

when unpacking things like ideologies. The way A levels work, they have to learn certain

material for the exam, but it's another to bring it to life.

And I think one of the wonderful things that the maze does is it brings to life real world issues,

but with that deeper philosophical, ideological kind of strand running underneath.

And I think students really learn from that well, and I think it really enriches the curriculum.

Is it more than just illuminating the issues that you're dealing with academically as well? Is there something also about the nature of argument? Oh, I think so. I think it creates better people. And actually one of our jobs is to get this lot through exams and obviously that's a rather big focus at this time of year, but actually just as bigger job is to help them become rounded adults who are going to go and live in the real world and bump up against people they disagree with and have to find ways of reconciling and dealing with that. So all of that aspect of this kind of thing is a wonderful experience for them to have. We haven't pensioned off our regular panel, or at least not yet. They've been here mentoring the students who'll take their places

tonight. Let's just eavesdrop on Claire Fox from the Institute of Ideas, Amber Kellevoy of

The Economist, the priest, Giles Fraser, and Matthew Taylor, Chief Executive of the RSA.

Before we start, just one tactical thing. One of the things that you have to do in the program

is decide what you want the dividing line to be.

So I think what we want to get to here is the broader principle of the balance between nature and human beings.

And that the Green Belt is a rule, and it may have its weaknesses, all rules have got weaknesses, but the issue here, the principled issue here is do we need rules which preserve nature or do we just say, well, actually, you know, kind of utilitarian basis or whatever's best for human beings will do.

...