You just said that the company was completely out of money, but I could tell that you also

didn't believe it would fail, which is a bit of a contradiction to some degree.

Well, because it was just money.

Yeah, and you could you figure that out.

I don't know how.

But you know, money is just this, you know, okay, so if we got the money, that in the

hard bit really is doing the doing isn't it? It's building it. So I always just knew somehow

this will work out. I mean, of course, you have the terrible dark days, but I knew it was going

to work out. How could it not? We want something. And I knew that.

That level of optimism in upon reflection of your career, if the last, you know, a couple of

decades, how important has that optimism been that just like unexplainable, unjustifiable

or I don't know why, but it'll just it will all work out on optimism.

Because you've also, because you've employed a lot of people seeing the opposite.

That sense of like catastrophe, you know, that catastrophizing. Oh, I know we're a fact.

You know, that kind of oh, yeah. I've kissed a lot of those for.

Yeah, wouldn't you say that that's a common denominator you find in entrepreneurs?

100%. I mean, even in team members, so I've it's so I can't explain it enough.

What example I was come back to was I was flying to Brazil and Obama was speaking at the same

time as me on the same stage as me just like speaking just after me. And I thought, well,

Obama's here. I'm a speaker. He's a speaker. Can't I meet him? And someone that was working for me

at the time when, oh, no, I asked somebody and they said, no, sick as a fuck if they said no.

Ask someone else and just keep asking. And then they'll let no, no, no, Steve, we've been asking

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