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Acton, acton. Welcome to We Have Ways of Make You Talk with Me, James Holland.

And with Martin Davidson and Martin Returning Again for part two, we were discussing

mobilizing hate, your book about the Holocaust.

And in the first half, we were talking about the road to war, won't we?

But also the road to the Holocaust because it wasn't the Holocaust in the 1930s when

the Nazis came to power. There was a massive strand at an absolute crucial key ideology

was anti-Semitism and the perceived need to get rid of the Jewish Bolshevik kind of

cancer that was corrupting the Germanic races and all that kind of nonsense.

And we left it on that first episode with war just about to begin and that very warped

ideology just starting to take a turn for a massive world.

Absolutely right. I think the first part was the more abstract of the two parts of the

story. This was the account because what I tried to do in the book is put the pieces

together that will help us understand what happened and why and who did it and what

they got out of it.

I think it's so important because it's no good to just say they had this tabla ideology

and so they enacted the Holocaust and the final solution. That's just not good enough.

You have to understand how it gets to that point and you have to understand, you know,

looking at sort of massacres by German troops, not necessarily SS troops but sort of their

mat troops, whether it be in the Eastern Front or whether it be in Europe in fact, whether

it's Ladichi, I don't know, Orador or Montessoli and so on or Santana. Why is it that young

20 roles can calmly line up with their machine guns and just mow people down? I mean, how

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