Children's book author Mo Willems is a celebrity to his tiny readers and their parents.

He's written more than 70 books featuring beloved characters like elephant and piggy,

Canuffel Bunny, and of course, the pigeon.

Willems wrote for Sesame Street and says his job as a dad taught him out to listen and love.

My friend Joe Fryer recently met up with Willems at the Strand Bookstore in New York City

to talk about the 20th anniversary of the first pigeon book, Don't Let the Pigeon Drive the Bus,

and how the passion and the playfulness of the pigeon

might be what has made the character so popular for all these years. Can you believe 20 years later you're still writing pigeon stories?

That is a really interesting question.

I certainly hoped so when they were first published,

but I was by no means assured that a book about a rat with wings talking directly to kids and making them yell know at the top

of their lungs was going to be something I would get to make a career out of. So I'm super excited.

I think I even like the pigeon more now than I did when he first started pecking at me.

I mean, you refer to the pigeon as a rat with wings. So what does that say?

Well, I mean, part of the scruffiness of the pigeon, I think, is what allowed him to make some space in the children's book world.

You know, everybody else already had adorable bunnies and dancing bears and wonderful koalas or whatever is cute.

Nobody thought about, you know, really examining a pigeon.

How do you simply describe the pigeon to people? The pigeon has wants. The pigeon has needs.

And the pigeon does not know the difference between the two of those things. And the pigeon

asks fundamental questions. Why are people mean? Why can't I get what I want? What is going on around here? Can I drive a bus? So in the same way that Socrates was amazing to listen to and a little bit annoying, the pigeon is amazing to listen to because he's very passionate and also a little bit annoying.

But that annoying isn't a bad thing, right?

No, I think it's an opportunity, certainly for kids to be able to flip the narrative, right?

...