This is Jonathan Lehman and Mark Devere here with Ryan Robertson and Mack Stiles.

And this is the inaugural episode of a new Nine Marks podcast series called Mission Talk.

And Mark and I are here to pass the baton to the brothers like we've done in other new podcast ventures.

And these two guys are going to be the hosts of this new podcast.

It's brought to you by both Nine Marks and Reaching and Teaching.

And we'll talk more about this podcast in a second.

I just want to meet both of you.

Well, I know you, but I want the listeners to meet both of you a little bit more.

Mark, when did you first

meet Mac? The spring of 1987. What was he like? Bring us back to that moment. He had more hair.

He had the same personality, extremely outgoing, cheerful and pushy for the good. I've heard people say he's more extroverted than you.

Oh, it's true.

Mack, when did you first meet Mark?

Well, like Mark said, we're going away back here.

But in the JFK Airport on our way to Kenya, where I was to be the new director of an immersive short-term missions program.

Mark was friends with the director who was handing off the program to me, and Mark was just tagging along.

At the time, Mark was a student at Gordon Conwell, and as it turned out, we room together at the Mayfield Guest House,

an old colonial missionary hotel in Nairobi, and Mark immediately, pastorily, challenged my bad theology.

What was your bad theology?

Oh, I told him that I felt like reform theology was one guardrail and Armenian theology was another.

But anyhow, Mark, and I made the comment, honestly, I made the comment, I think all

theology should be pastoral in the end. And Mark said, that's a beautiful thing to say. But what

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