Minneapolis Feels ‘Like Being in a Civil War’

Interesting Times with Ross Douthat

New York Times Opinion

Journalism, New York Times, Ross Douthat, News, Society & Culture

4.0 • 7.2K Ratings

🗓️ 16 January 2026

⏱️ 47 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Can cellphone cameras and whistles impede President Trump’s immigration policy? On this week’s episode of “Interesting Times,” Ross speaks with Francisco Segovia, the executive director of a Minneapolis-based nonprofit on the front lines of anti-ICE activism, about how his organization is training citizens to become constitutional observers. “It’s your right to video record what your government is doing,” he says. Ross asks if there’s any enforcement he’d accept. 2:56 Current dynamics on the ground in Minneapolis 5:03 Communities Organizing Power and Action for Latinos (COPAL) 6:53 Francisco Segovia's story 14:26 What is a constitutional observer? 22:27 Reflections on Renee Good 28:59 Training efforts to try and keep protesters safe 34:42 What kind of immigration enforcement is legitimate? Hey, Los Angeles! Come see Ross in conversation with the columnist Jamelle Bouie and the editor of New York Times Opinion, Katie Kingsbury, on Tuesday, Jan. 20. They’ll take stock of the first year of Trump’s second term and debate the administration’s biggest actions so far and what it all means for our country. Get tickets here while they’re still available.

Transcript

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0:00.0	Hey listeners, before we start, I wanted to let our friends out west know about an event I'm doing
0:05.8	in the City of Angels next week. On Tuesday, January 20th at 7 p.m., I'll be in conversation with my
0:12.9	colleague Jamel Bowie and our boss, the head of New York Times opinion, Katie Kingsbury.
0:18.0	And together, we're going to make sense of the second Trump presidency so far.
0:23.0	Just a small task, I know, but we'll discuss the past year and debate the most consequential
0:28.1	or disastrous actions and moments so far in this presidency. The Library Foundation of Los Angeles
0:35.3	is kindly hosting us.
0:39.8	You can find more information in our show notes,
0:42.4	and you can buy tickets for the event online. Just go to LFLA.org slash calendar
0:45.8	and check out the event for January 20th at 7 p.m.
0:51.5	From New York Times opinion, I'm Ross Douthand, and this is Interesting Times.
1:20.0	The death of Ren Good in Minneapolis has put a spotlight on the aggressive tactics of immigration and customs enforcement agents operating in U.S. cities. And it's also spotlighted the groups
1:26.0	organizing to observe and protest immigration enforcement.
1:30.5	I'm really interested in these small-scale efforts, which have led to people standing on street
1:36.2	corners and blowing whistles to alert neighborhoods to ISIS presence, to following agents, carrying
1:42.3	cell phone cameras, while the agents are conducting
1:44.7	operations and making arrests. It seems like a very effective style of protest in certain ways,
1:51.4	especially since it generates footage of ice overreach and abuse, but it's also fraught with
1:57.4	risk when it tempts protesters to interfere with law enforcement directly.
2:03.2	My guest today is training people for this kind of activism. Francisco Segovia is the executive
2:09.0	director of a Minneapolis nonprofit that's on the front lines of the anti-ice operations, and I wanted
2:15.8	to talk to him about how he trains people for interactions
	...

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