Hey, it's Brian. Before we get started, just a quick note that this episode, and the other five in this special series,

discuss Santa Claus, but not in a way that younger listeners could appreciate.

If there are little ones within earshot, save this for later. Thanks.

Sometimes they do have good intentions.

But the problem is that in order to do something good that doesn't exist, you have to do a lot of smoke and mirrors.

You have to put up a front.

I think that a good con artist, if they could control everything, they would like everyone to win.

But the problem is that not everyone could win, but they definitely have to win.

This is Javier Leva, and he knows a thing or two about con artists because he's talked to lots of

them. He's the host of the podcast Pretend Radio, which is all about con artists and the people

they affect.

When we met John Gluck in Chapter 2, we met an ambitious man eager to run to where he thought

lightning was about to strike.

Someone who wanted to make a name for himself.

He was learning the ins and outs of running a massive operation.

He was working the media and building relationships

in New York City's power set. At most, you could say he was opportunistic, someone who saw a chance

to do well for himself by doing good for others. It's something philosophers call enlightened self-interest.

But what happens when it gets harder and harder to tell where the enlightenment ends and the

self-interest begins?

What happens when an act of charity starts looking more and more like an elaborate con?

What happens when you fake it till you make it, but then just keep on faking it?

...