For perspective on the spiraling violence between Israel and Lebanon, we get two views.

Aaron David Miller is a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace and a long time State Department official in both Democratic and Republican administrations.

And Hussein Ibish is a senior resident scholar at the Arab Gulf States Institute in Washington.

Thank you both for being here. And you're saying I'll start with you.

Lebanon's health ministry says the strikes have killed 492 people including 35 children and 58 women.

What's your assessment of how Israel is conducting this military operation?

Well, it's obviously aimed at not just Hezbollah and its weapons depots,

but anything that Israel thinks might be of use to

his balla it's very similar to the doctrine applied in Gaza where dual use

triple use facilities are all targeted and so are anything that could kind of maybe be on that list.

There is a real deference towards authorization rather than non-authorization of awards authorization of strikes and a willingness to do tremendous harm.

Part of it is psychological warfare, part of it is generalized vengeance.

Israel's approach to these things

is wars between societies.

And they want to make sure everybody gets the point

and everybody suffers.

Aaron David Miller, how does this move Israel closer to its goal of facilitating the return of some 60,000 people,

civilians to their homes in the north.

You know, it's great to be with you,

and it's always great to be with Hussein.

I'm not sure about the war against society.

So I think these Israelis are faced with a legitimate problem, that is October 8th as the bullet decided for their own

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