Hi everyone and welcome to the podcast. My name is Mike Mason and I'm here today with James Lewis. Hi, James. Hi, Mike. Hi, everyone. So you might know James as Mr. Microservices. He is one of the original authors of a whole bunch of literature on microservices.

I remember Martin Fowler stole him across the Atlantic and hid James away in his attic for a week.

And they wrote the original article on microservices.

So James talks a lot about

microservices at conferences and this this topic on the on the podcast today you and i have

talked about it a little bit but um i don't know very much about it so i'm going in very much as a novice

to this topic but you've you've described it as the physics of microservices.

Yeah, I appreciate that sounds a bit hyperbolic or slightly grandiose.

Just slightly.

Just slightly, yeah.

But I think actually what we're going to be talking about is this idea of complex adaptive systems

does underpin a lot of the practices, principles, characteristics of what that have made microservices so successful.

When we talk about microservices, we talk about organization around business capabilities,

we talk about long-lived products, teams. We talk about

smarts in the endpoints, not in the pipes. So these sort of characteristics tend to be the

things that when teams adopt them, they become successful with the microservice architectural style.

And conversely, when they don't adopt these organizational design patterns, if you like, they

tend not to be so successful with microservices.

And I guess over the last sort of five years, it's been five years now since we've published the article Martin myself, which is scary.

But over those sort of five years, obviously, you know, time has moved on and I've been doing a lot more reading and learning and research

into stuff that I guess could be the underlying organizing or organizing principles of

of why this stuff works. So why microservices work? So why microservices work. Yeah. And really

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