For a young girl when they're googling something like Matisse, my name comes up.

Like for me to assert myself within that Western canon is to really try to dismantle and deconstruct

the notions that persist.

From the Ted Audio Collective this is Design Matters with Debbie Millman.

For 18 years Debbie Millman has been talking with designers and other creative people about what they do,

how they got to be who they are and what they're thinking about and working on.

On this episode, Mickalene Thomas talks about how black women are depicted in her art,

and about her burgeoning career.

I want to be in my 80s and my 90s still making more.

I'm in this for the moment.

Black women are front and center in the work of Mickalene Thomas.

They're lying on couches, sitting on chairs, sometimes nude,

other times closed and brilliant patterns are glittering with rhinestones.

And they're almost always looking right at us, eye to eye, demanding to know if we are worth a glance or acknowledgement.

Mickalene Thomas is one of the most important artists working today.

Her paintings, photographs, films and installations can be found in the permanent collections of museums all over the world.

She joins me today to talk about her powerful art and her extraordinary career.

Mickalene Thomas, welcome to Design Matters.

Thank you. Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

Mickalene and your monograph Beyond the Pleasure Principle.

Roxanne Gay states in the introduction that you have big, dick energy.

Would you agree?

...