Welcome back to the Wolverine.com podcast, the video edition. I'm John Borton, and today we have a very special guest with us, author, longtime Michigan historian Barry Gallagher, who has joined us to talk about his book that is out now. And I've got a copy of that. The nasty football history of Michigan, Michigan State. You can see the state divide. You can see Paul Bunyan on the cover. Very great to have you with us.

Thanks, John. Thanks for having me. Well, I'll tell you what, I've been,

I've been going through the book and finding a ton of interesting aspects to it. Why don't

you tell me, first of all, before I get into this, how it was that you came to be interested in diving into a Michigan-Michigan State book.

One that I will say right up front has breakdowns of every game between these teams from 1898 through 2020,

which is fascinating for anyone closely following the rivalry.

Well, I don't know if you know this, John,

but I, you know, I'm a Wolverine through and through.

I don't have a degree from Michigan, but I did teach ROTC there for four years.

I was a fan before I got there.

I'll be a fan till I die.

But I live in a house divided.

Aha.

So my wife is, you know, she hasn't read any of my football books.

But she's supportive and she said one time, she said, honey, how hard would it be to write a book about Michigan State?

And I said, well, I think it would be very hard because, number one, I'm not a great Spartan plan, although I have two sons that are Spartans.

So, you know, I'm okay with Sparty when they're playing, except when they're playing Michigan.

Uh-huh.

But I said the research would really be hard because the information available at the Bentley Historical Library is unmatched.

And I said, I just don't think the research, it would be really hard.

But I started thinking, maybe I could write a book about the rivalry.

And I started doing some research, figuring out, has there ever been a book written about Michigan, Michigan State?

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