Hello, I'm Joanna Coles, Chief Content Officer of The Daily Beast, and you are listening to The Daily Beast podcast.

If you're used to the new abnormal, stick around because today's guest is one of the most maddeningly insightful chroniclers of American power,

and one of the few writers alive who still makes

Washington squirm. Michael Wolfe is with us. You probably know him as the author of Fire and Fury,

the book that blew the lid off Trump's West Wing dysfunction. And most recently, all or nothing,

his sharp unnerving dispatch covering the run-up to Trump's second term. But long before the bestsellers, Michael was already in the room

where the secrets were whispered. He has the uncanny ability to get people, even presidents,

to tell him things they absolutely shouldn't tell him.

Michael also has a history with The Daily Beast. In fact, he and the Beast broke a certain story

just days before the last election. Remember the Epstein tapes? The ones where the disgraced

financier Jeffrey Epstein friend to many a rich and powerful man was caught on

camera discussing Donald Trump, as he said, one of his best friends. Yes, those tapes. We ran them.

That was us. That was Michael. So whether you believe Trump is a savior, a symptom or a catastrophe,

Michael Wolf has become the go-to

writer for the shadow version of that reality. The one whispered in the White House corners

and media green rooms, the one people pretend they're not reading, but absolutely are. He's

provocative, he's polarising, and unlike most pundits, he's actually in conversation with the people in power. He's provocative. He's polarizing. And unlike most pundits, he's actually in conversation

with the people in power, especially the ones who pretend to loathe him. Michael, you have taken to

Instagram recently, which is a change of cadence for you. How are you enjoying the change of pace?

Oh, I hate it. Social media, you know,

I was dragged kicking and screaming into this and I would have much preferred. It was still 20 years ago.

But alas, it is not. But I have to give all the credit to this to my wife, Victoria, who is the one who has dragged me

...