It shouldn't matter what religion you are.

Whatever works, if it works to increase human flourishing,

have more people in more places than I'm for it.

So joining us on today's show is Michael Shermer.

Michael is the founder of Skeptic Magazine.

He's also the author of a couple of books, which I'll introduce in just a second. I'm really excited to talk to him. But before we get to any of that, first, I want to say thanks to our sponsors over at stamps.com. So these days, you can get practically everything on demand. Like our podcast, listen whenever you want when it's convenient for you. With stamps.com, you can access all the great services of the post office right from your desk 24-7

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Okay.

Well, Michael Sherman, thanks so guest for that special deal. Stamps.com promo code Ben Guest.

Okay. Well, Michael Sherman, thanks so much for coming on the show. First, I want to pump your books a little bit because they are both fantastic. These are the two most recent. You've written more than this, but these are the two most recent. The Moral Arc, how science and reason led humanity toward truth, justice, and freedom. and this one, which just came out

and was favorably reviewed

in the Wall Street Journal,

Heavens on Earth,

the scientific search

for the afterlife, immortality, and utopia. And I've really been looking forward to this conversation, Michael, because I know there's a lot that we disagree on. I think people are going to be shocked to find there's a lot that we actually agree on as well. Michael is probably one of the foremost atheists in America, if not the world, and obviously I wear the funny Jew hat.

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