Welcome to Current Affairs. My name is Nathan Robinson. I am the editor-in-chief of Current Affairs Magazine. I am joined today by Professor John Sanborn Matsu.

He is Professor of Philosophy at the Worcester Polytechnic Institute.

He is the author of the Postmodern Prince,

and most recently the book that we are here to discuss with him today,

The Omnivore's Deception, what we get wrong about meat, animals,

and ourselves available from New York University Press. Professor John Sondbomansu,

thank you so much for joining us here on Cardiffares. I am delighted. Thank you so much for having me now um you were kind

enough to uh people might recognize your name if they're regular readers of current affairs

because you did in fact uh appear in the one of the most recent issues of our print magazine, which is our special animals edition.

Regular readers will know that we often cover animal rights, animal welfare, but we actually

put together an entire special issue, which everyone should check out.

And we had in that 15 Q&As with people who approach animal welfare from

lots of different angles, from people who do direct action, from people who, you know, have

liberated mink from mink farms or rammed whaling ships to people who are lawyers, to John, who is

the author of this, you know, this powerful work

of philosophy where he's arguing about the kind of deep immorality, the need to confront the, you

know, head on, the full horror of the way that we treat animals. And I think, you know, what you're doing in here is so necessary, so difficult for people,

because you are confronting a lot of people's deepest intuitions and their excuses,

and you're telling them, actually I'm sorry but your

excuses won't fly I let's let's start here with you know where you start in the book

you start you start with a quote in your introduction which is I tried

vegetarianism once not for the animals for the

...