Hello and welcome to stay free with Russell Brand. Today it is Subcutaneous, a deep under the skin,

in-depth conversation with a fascinating finger in the past. We've had Tim Robbins. Did you see that

episode? Jordan Peterson, Eckart Toll, Maya, aka MIA, Van Dane Sheev has has been on. Joko Willink. And today I'm joined by Michael P. Sengar.

A lawyer and the author of Snake Oil, how Chi Jinping shut down the world. Michael's been an outspoken

critic around the pandemic and the emulation by Western liberal democracies of Chinese-style

tyranny, says Western elites are to blame for our response to COVID-19

through the influence and collusion with the Chinese, with the Chinese Communist Party.

And it is this subject that we will be discussing among others today.

Welcome for the show, Michael.

Thanks for joining us.

Thank you so much, Russell.

Great to be here.

It's in particular this collusion that interests us because we've been pitied a narrative

where US interests and Chinese interests in particular are at odds with one another

and buttress against one another.

But perhaps the tendrils of deceit in that narrative are visible through the evident emulation of Chinese policy, for example, around COVID.

So can you give us clear examples of collusion between the CCP and Western interests, be they governmental or private, in particular U.S. pharmacological interests?

Yeah, absolutely. You know, the focus of my work is really just on the significance of everything

we've experienced over the last three years with regard to COVID. If you think back to spring

2020, with those initial lockdowns, what really happened is across the world,

liberal democracy suddenly ground to a sudden stop, you know, beginning in Italy and then going

from one country to another, you had that domino effect across Europe. And then, you know,

...