One of the marks of the great character is she doesn't know she's a character and she doesn't realize that what she just told me is just magic.

Welcome to Kelly Corrigan Wonders. I'm Kelly Corrigan and today I'm wondering about how looking closer reveals deep truths about people and what those people care about most.

My guest is Michael Lewis, the best-selling author of the Blindside Moneyball, the big short. He's also the host of a fascinating podcast called Against the Rules, which explores things like our culture's obsession with fairness and are sometimes irrational desire for expertise and authority.

We talked about his knack for recognizing great characters, whether they be traders, public health officials or a daughter now gone.

We'll be right back with Kelly Corrigan Wonders. Join us.

Welcome back to Kelly Corrigan Wonders. I'm Kelly Corrigan. Something I say to myself when I'm preparing to interview someone is look closer.

I realized that I may have learned that 15 years ago when I met Michael Lewis for the first time.

We were at lunch with a guy named Dr. Bert Lubin who ran a children's hospital. We both wanted to help and Michael Lewis was starved for story. I never heard someone ask so many questions.

His foragers curiosity has led to some of the best characters on the page or on the screen in many, many decades.

Michael Burry from the big short, Michael Orr from the Blindside, Billy Bean from Moneyball.

But he's also found a new medium podcasting where he explores two big observations about American culture that we'll talk about today.

Here's my conversation initially recorded for my PBS show, Tell Me More, with best-selling author, old-fashioned New Orleans rock contour, and family man, Michael Lewis.

So I thought with our little bit of time today that we could talk about three characters in light of these two ideas that you've got going on your podcast,

which is we're obsessed with fairness as a culture, and that we're slightly dismissive of expertise and authority.

So the first person I want to talk about is Dr. Michael Burry from the big short.

So this guy with a glass eye, loves heavy metal, went to Vanderbilt, was going to be a neurosurgeon, has asked burgers.

He didn't discover that until well into his life, but yes, only discovered it because his son was diagnosed.

And they said, in case of where did this come from, and then they put him through the test, and he found out.

Tell me about discovering him. Why was he the person that could call the short?

For the big short, he was a fabulous character obviously.

So basically, if you look at what happened in the financial crisis, they'll run up to the financial crisis.

A giant bet was made in the financial world, and it was on subprime mortgage bonds.

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