Michael Gordon on the U.S. War Against the Islamic State

The Lawfare Podcast

The Lawfare Institute

Foreign Policy, News, Military, Current Events, Politics, History, Intelligence, International Relations, National Security, Terrorism, International Law, Government, Law, Diplomacy, Constitutional Law, Rule Of Law

4.7 • 6.2K Ratings

🗓️ 23 August 2022

⏱️ 63 minutes

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Summary

In 2014, as Islamic State insurgents took control of the Iraqi city of Mosul, President Barack Obama made the decision to send troops back to Iraq. Within five years, through the work of the United States and its partners, the organization was largely dismantled. What was the nature of the U.S. struggle against the Islamic State? Which decisions were instrumental to its success? And how did the U.S. coordinate with partners in the region.

To discuss these issues, former Lawfare associate editor Bryce Klehm spoke with Michael Gordon, a national security correspondent for the Wall Street Journal, about his new book, “Degrade and Destroy,” Gordon's fourth book on Iraq. They covered a range of topics, including the status of forces agreement, or SOFA, the Trump administration's counter-Islamic State strategy, and the challenges for journalists embedding with coalition forces.

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Transcript

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0:25.6	no bull and the aftermath.
0:33.9	So there were fewer meetings.
0:35.0	In fact, there were probably no meetings about, you know, how many issues we put here,
0:38.9	how many issues we put there, how many helicopters can we have in Syria.
0:43.7	And as a consequence of that, one of the ironies is what Trump really did was he executed
0:49.4	the Obama strategy, but sometimes more efficiently than Obama himself.
0:54.5	Because the rules of engagement were not changed, I talked to lots of military commanders
0:59.4	about it.
1:00.4	There was no change in the rules of engagement from Obama to Trump.
1:03.6	What did change was the degree of oversight in Washington and that enabled the Pentagon
1:08.7	and the military to make more decisions on their own with one huge exception.
1:15.7	On two occasions, Trump ordered US troops out of Syria only to reverse himself, which
1:24.0	was a degree of impulsiveness that created all sorts of obstacles in the final chapter
1:29.6	of the campaign.
1:31.6	I'm Matt Gluck and this is the LawFair podcast August 23, 2022.
1:36.4	In 2014, as Islamic State and Surgeons took control of the Iraqi city of Mosul, President
1:42.0	Barack Obama made the decision to send troops back to Iraq.
1:45.2	Within five years, through the work of the United States and its partners, the organization
	...

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