And he said, well, if the doorbell rings and if it's a police officer with the yellow vest and everything, I want you to start recording no matter what.

I don't know what. good afternoon. We can't see you like, we'll just get drunk and stay in time.

Good afternoon, Michael Malice here. Let that be your welcome for the next hour. We have

with us a really exciting, very special return guest, Melissa Chen. Melissa is one of the co-founders

of ideas beyond borders. I have described you in the past as the most annoying guest I've ever had,

which is true. You also famously were the only person who had to leave Rogan because you had a

panic attack midway through the episode, which was funny. What I want to talk to you about,

and this is actually before we start talking about free speech, because I think you have a unique

perspective. Americans are oblivious about how free speech so-called works in other countries.

And they have this really naive idea, I think, that most countries are largely the same.

And they don't appreciate how really special and unique Americans have it and that it's not at all the norm.

But before we get to that, you and I have been hanging out, like when you ever come to

Austin, I think we've gotten pretty close. And I feel a lot closer to you than a lot of people

have known for years. And when that happens, I'm always curious what's the source of this? Like,

I have a lot of friends in recovery. And one thing's in recovery is like, if you have an emotional

response, try to figure out where this is coming from and like why do i feel so safe around melissa and so bonded and then i was hanging out last week

with macaela peterson and i think i figured it out and i want to hear your thoughts because in the

same way that like hold on no no no you haven't even told you my thesis my hypothesis yet so in the

same way that i'm not a wine drinker, but if I sat down with Somelier,

they're like, okay, here's a dry wine and a sweet wine, which do you like better?

Here's a red and a white, which you like better.

They can do process of elimination and be like, okay, you dry red, so you should be drinking these, right? So Michaela and I are both zero on the politeness metric and like a hundred on the openness

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