I really haven't talked about this in any other interviews, but much of McKinsey's work

is doubly hidden because it goes through law firms, right?

So it would be a law firm hires McKinsey.

This is the case we understand with tobacco makers and we have a deposition that we looked

at that we found out this is the case with Jewel.

I'm Chris Hill and that's Michael Forsyth.

Investigative reporter for the New York Times and co-author of the book when McKinsey comes

to town, the hidden influence of the world's most powerful consulting firm.

Ricky Mulvey caught up with Forsyth to talk about McKinsey's work with US Steel, Walmart

and China's state-owned companies.

How the consulting firm works up and down the healthcare value chain and one way that

McKinsey helped weaponize the insurance claims process.

Most powerful, that struck me.

So there's a lot of other consulting firms out there.

You've got the Boston Consulting Bain & Company.

Why are you giving this heavyweight title to McKinsey?

So first of all, if you look at the management consulting companies, this is in the industry

known as MBB McKinsey, Boston Consulting Group Bain, McKinsey has been around much longer

than the other guys and is bigger, certainly more revenue.

But it's more than that and it distinguishes from the broader consulting companies, the

GWC's, the Ascentures in the world is because of the prestige McKinsey has and also it's

reach around the world.

...