if people are designing these systems to cause harm fundamentally, then there kind of is no way

to make a human-centered version of that sort of system.

Hello and welcome to Tech Won't Save Us, made in partnership with The Nation magazine.

I'm your host, Paris Marks, and on this special holiday-ish episode, because I'm not recording anything new over the holidays, I figured I would release one of the premium episodes that I have

been making available to Patreon supporters from our Data Vampire series in October.

And I wanted to start with this interview with Ali Al-Katib, who works for Logics magazine

and was previously the director of the Center for Applied Data Ethics.

Now, if you listen to the series, you will have heard clips from this

interview with Ali, but I thought it was a really good one on AI and, you know, the kind of

political aspects of AI and the broader consequences of this AI hype and the rollout of these

AI systems that really gave me a lot of food for thought and that I heard really positive responses

from the Patreon supporters when they heard it as well. So I figured if there were going to be

some premium episodes that were going to be released to everybody, I wanted to include this

one so that it could enter, you know, this broader conversation and maybe get you thinking

about some other aspects of the AI conversation by going

beyond what I was able to include in the Data Vampire series. So I hope you enjoy this conversation

with Ali. And since this is the final episode that will be published in 2024, I also wanted to say

a special thank you to Bridget Paloo Fry. You will probably have heard her name in the outro to the show

if you, you know, frequently go that far. She has been helping with the transcripts for the show

for the past like couple years now. And she has been doing a fantastic job. We now have more than

100 transcripts available on the website for previous episodes. There has been a little bit of a delay

lately because we have both been very busy. And I wanted to say a special thank you to Bridget

...