Welcome to the Maxwell Institute podcast. I'm Joseph Stewart.

Derwin Gray, a BYU alumni and pastor of Transformation Church in South Carolina, says that part of the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ is that the Savior has a lot to say about how to heal our persistent racial divides.

In his new book, How to Heal Our Racial Divide, what the Bible says and the first Christians

knew about racial reconciliation, Pastor Gray shows us how knowing the heart of God helps

us to see each person as a creation of a loving God.

And from the beginning, God envisioned a reconciled multi-ethnic family in loving communities,

reflecting God's beauty and healing presence in the world. The message is central to the gospel

itself, he argues. Here are Pastor Derwin Gray and Vicki Gray. Vicki and Derwin Gray, welcome to the

Maxwell Institute podcast. Thank you. It's honor for us to be here. The pleasure is all ours, as is the honor.

And love that you all are here, especially talking about Darwin's new book, how to heal our racial divide, what the Bible says and the first Christians knew about racial reconciliation.

And both of you are BYU alumni.

I was curious, did you all meet here at BYU? We did meet at BYU. And my wife is Vala Victorian here at Brigham Young University. So I think it's a very

important for everybody to know. And she was on the track team. I want her to give her version of how we

met. And then I'll give the true version of how we met.

The true version? Okay. Yeah. So it was my junior year. It was his freshman year, second semester.

And I was in the athlete's weight room, and I was doing an exercise called tricep extensions.

And there was hardly anybody in the weight

room, and I needed a spot, and so I spotted him and asked him if he would give me a spot,

and he said, sure. So he did, and then I bolted after that. Maybe a couple weeks later, we were

both playing basketball. It was actually Martin Luther King Jr. holiday,

and a lot of the athletes would play pickup basketball on like off days just to get a

workout in and have fun. And so we were playing basketball and he asked one of his teammates on the

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