You know, only a straight man could believe that having sex with someone makes them less likely to murder you.

Welcome to You're Wrong About The Podcast Where We Set Right What We Once Got Wrong.

We're still working on the tagline, but welcome to our show.

I am Michael Hobbs, I'm a writer for Having a Post.

I'm Sarah Marshall, I'm a writer for The New Republic and Buzzfeed.

And we have a special guest today. Our special guest is Mike Owens, who is a Twitter friend,

a long-standing Twitter friend of the show, who is a lawyer in Portland.

Oh, Portland.

Yes, which Sarah has heard of from growing up here.

I forgot.

Thanks for having me, guys.

So today, we're going to talk about Matthew Shepherd, who, because I am gay and Mike is gay,

Matthew Shepherd was always this, um, this totem for us.

It was a huge deal.

I mean, I guess I should say what it was, but Matthew Shepherd's murder was something that really galvanized the country,

and it put the issue of gay vashing on the agenda.

And then he became a symbol.

And like all symbols, I assume that it's more complicated than we thought it was.

I mean, I do think that's a good starting point.

So, uh, so yeah, what are you guys?

What's your kind of initial memory of how his murder went down and what happened?

So I was 10 at the time, and I remember that this was something that I heard about, you know,

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