From away to garden.com and Robinhood Radio.com, this is Away to Garden with Margaret Roach. You're a weekly invitation to dig in and grow. If I say quick name a holiday flower, you might answer Poinsettia. But Poinsettia wasn't always synonymous with this time of year. Today's guest tells me like once upon a time where the in a century ago the chrysanthemum took center floral stage from Thanksgiving to New Year's surprising as that might sound. Whether historic or cutting-edge modern horticulturist Matt Metis is here to remind us there are many choices of festive blooms including various ones we can grow ourselves indoors and he has tricks for perfecting even the most familiar of those, your amerylis, for instance. So more in a moment about turning up the volume on holiday color, but first these messages. Underwriting support for a Way to Garden provided by Colorblends, wholesale flower bulbs, a third-generation bulb company offering top-sized flower bulbs directly to landscape professionals and ambitious residential gardeners on the web, Colorblends.com. And by High Moeng Seeds, Wolcott Vermont, Professional Quality Vegetable, Flower, and Urbel Seeds that are 100% organic and non-GMO project verified. On the web, HighMoengSeeds.com. by white Whiteflower Farm offering a wide range of carefully selected and expertly grown garden plants on the web whiteflower farm dot com. Matt Madness is a lifelong plant person and that's putting it mildly and I can always count on him to be showcasing some drool worthy flower on his Instagram feed even even in winter. You may recall a popular conversation Matt and I had about Christmas cactus, and he's a senior director of Horticulture for the American Horticultural Society these days, and he gardens in Massachusetts, and is the author of various garden books, including Mastering the Art of Vegetable Gardening and Mastering the Art of Flower Gardening. He also provides consultation services both virtually and in person to help others with garden design and plant care issues. And I'm so glad to welcome him back. So ho ho ho, Matt, or something over you. I'm great. I know those of us in the Northeast are suffering through our first snow storm. I know, unlike last year when I don't think we had it right away, I did away. Oh, I know. But hey, it's not going to feel like the holiday season. Yeah. I'm not looking

forward to the single digit nights though that are coming up in a few in the next few days. That's

not my favorite thing. Keep those pipes unfrozen, baby. That reminds me, yeah, I have to turn the

heater on in the greenhouse. Hello. This is reminder Matt this is your reminder batten down the hatches so yeah so we did Christmas cacti not so many years ago and and you know it's not exactly a holiday flower so to speak I mean it's a flowering plant but anyway you know I just I've been watching your Instagram as I said in the introduction and you You know, you've been showing these like incredible chrysanthemums and so forth and you know it got me nostalgic in a funny way because one of the first pictures, baby pictures I have of myself is standing in front of a row of standard you know single stem one flower at the top, despite it you you chrissanthomums that my grandmother grew each year for the full flower show. She was into that and she like covered them with, you know, black cloth for X number of hours a day, you know, a night so that they got the right amount of darkness or whatever the triggers were. And so there I am, you know, with these show months. It's a little bit... Oh my God, how did I not know this? Yes, that's a big thing. Weird, right?

Yeah, no, that's really amazing. But it's, you know, first of all, it's timely, right? I think the, let's say the exhibition in Chrysanthemum, those like you're talking about the sort of one giant flower in a single stem, or just out of vogue for like the past 70 years. I mean, unless you remember of the Krasnathmum Society and all of a sudden, like in the past five years or even the past two years, it's everywhere on Instagram. It's like the it flower all of a sudden. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. New Dalian. Yes. That's great. But you know, they were the holiday flower. A century ago, that was because they had the mums were easy to grow and, you know, they grow all summer and they grow from cuttings in the spring and then they grow all summer. So local florists could grow these in their greenhouses, even if they kept them cold in the winter. But talk about local flowers. That that was the flower available between, you know, October and new Year's. So you see vintage pictures of these, the holidays and stuff? Yeah, cool. Yeah, I mean, if you just go and etsy whatever and say, look for vintage engraved holiday cards, you start seeing all these flowers that aren't what typically what we think of as holiday flowers. I mean, even Golden Rod you'll see on a card from the mid 19th century but often Cassanthamums for a holiday card with a piece of holiday. Cassanthamum and Holly, that's a funny combo. And again as I said it also in the introduction, you know we think point-setty and that we think oh well that must have been forever because it's so ubiquitous, but it's

much more modern, right?

Relatively speaking. Totally modern. Yeah, in fact, it's so modern as a potted plant. It really wasn't until the 1950s where you started seeing, you think of these short ones you see now at the markets. It was gold foil on them. And they're only a foot high. And that's relatively new. mid 20th century, you know, the Eck breeding in California and all these beautiful colors and all of these colors.

That's whoever 20th century, you know, the X breeding in California and all these beautiful colors and all these colors. You feel it better. The Paul ECK Paul Acre. Yeah, I really, yeah, transformed the point, Sadia, but if you look at an annual holiday movie, they were a cut flower. They were perliminary, you know, primarily if you look at Christmas in Connecticut, that's a base of cut flower point study is on the piano. There was a big deal in Hollywood. I mean, it grown as a crop in the field crop in Hollywood where they have a point study of trolley that would take you out to look at the fields and you would cut stems and almost every old movie from the 40s. You won't see a potted one. You'll see them as a bouquet or an advance. We invented the growth regulators that could be sprayed on them to keep them dwarf and we put them in pots and mastered all that stuff. It brings us back to hearty moms, right? Like that's mounted moms. That's what's given the chrysanthemum, I think a bad name other than supermarket mums that Right. It's cheap and easy to Export but that's all changing. Yeah, so holiday flowers where they really go back in time You know if you feel like you said before what was there before the point said yeah because really and even though the point said it was you know discovered and and what the mid 19th century and you know, brought to Philadelphia and really only grown by the very wealthy who got afford a hot house like a house. Right. Right. And you had to shade them just like you mentioned, but they're santa moms. You had to shade them to adjust the photo period. So they would bloom at Christmas. Otherwise, they would bloom. And Hawaii and I went to college in Hawaii and they bloom there, the sort of naturalized in the woods. As they grow them like hydrangeas there around your house, they would bloom in January and February. They're 12 feet, but not as a potted commercial. It's pretty funny. Yeah. So these know, quite old and you know with a mom and less so with the point of the day, you know, greenhouse crops really, and you have a small greenhouse and so you're able to grow some of the mums and that's really fun in their gorgeous. And I'll give the link to your Instagram because some of the flower forms are just unbelievable. But for those of us who, you know, it's the winter time, the

holidays. fun in their gorgeous and I'll give the link to your Instagram because some of the flower forms are just unbelievable. But for those of us who, you know, it's the winter time, the holiday time, etc. The things we can grow in our houses if we don't have a greenhouse. A lot of them are bulbs, yes. Yeah, absolutely. Bulbs go way back. I mean, yeah, the Chrysanthemum is something just to touch quickly on that. they're difficult to grow unless you have a greenhouse because maybe mid-Atlantic states, you can get them to bloom outdoors, but they do bloom late. So unless you have a place of porch or somewhere to keep them, that's difficult for the exhibition ones. But, you know, this is when you're seeing holiday plants for sale at florists or at the florist market at a super market.

You know, thinking back on those, those thinking bulbs are always I think the first thing a lot of us think of like amerylis or paper whites. And I always felt, I don't know if you did this, but I always felt that it might be just my age, but I felt that they were sort of mid 20th century. I didn't see them before that. Right. I thought that too. and then you know when we chatted the other day on the phone you told me that

Amarillo's have been around our sort of mid 20th century, I didn't see them before that. Right, I thought that too.

And then, you know, when we chatted the other day on the phone, you told me that Ameriolis have been around a really long time. I didn't how old. Well, I mean, so the late 1600s, I mean, they're from South America. So they really weren't brought to Europe until, you know, the Dutch brought them. But let's say you know, let's say by 1700 or 1730s, they were in Europe and and and started to be forced. They realized that, you know, this was a plant that bloomed in the winter and it was easy to grow because you could ship them on a ship if you think about bulbs of perfectly designed. There's perfectly packaged to to be on a merchant ship in 1700s. You know,, right? They come from the southern hemisphere of their grown opposite season so they can fill up, you know, they can sell these when they went to Europe while they're

adornment and then you know, what would be better than having something flowering in 17th to 18th 19th century in the winter in Europe, especially, you know, in Germany and England. And That's where people were really just starting to grow florist flowers, you know, primula or anything that would flower in very late winter, early spring. But paper whites were closer to them because they're from the Mediterranean areas. So really they date back to quite far. So these aren't, you know, these aren't even something that Lincoln would have had. It was way before that. And so one of the things that's interesting with the Amarillas is they're not all exactly the same. You were just talking about where they originally hail from and so forth, but where we order them from today, our bulb catalogs, they're coming from two different places, I believe, and they behave differently because of that. So an amoralysis, not an amoralysis, not an amorellis, right? Right. Well, even the name amorellis is confusing. It's very similar to, you know, geranium and pelagonium. So at the true amorellis, is thepeleodona. We're not talking about that plant. The plant we're referring, most of us refer to as amorealis is hippiastrom that would be the genus. You rarely would see them sold by that. I think everyone knows, they can picture an amorealis, you know, the big giant bulb, big red flower. Right. are talking about here. And yeah, they go back quite far, but they also are Southern hemisphere, you know, Brazil, Paraguay, South American plant, basically, some species, there are a number of species is more than one. And the modern ones we see today are often crosses, sort of complex crosses, some of the number of species. I mean, no one needs to know that, but you might be wondering why you're seeing like spidery flowered ones now or miniature ones. And there's a lot of breeding going on. But the Southern Hemisphere ones were always the ones that would, if they were shipped from the Southern Hemisphere, they would bloom at Christmas or more likely. And you'll see that today in catalogs. A good bulb catalog would say this is a Southern hemisphere grown bulb. And you might be wondering I go to, you know, a big box store and I see an emerald with the flower bud emerging right now. Yeah, that's probably going to bloom for Christmas, but you also might buy this big expensive bulb and you're wondering why isn't the bud coming out? I potted it. It's been three months and there's no bud. Like that's common. And those generally are ones that have grown in the Netherlands. Most of the bulbs have grown in the Netherlands. But some, but there are some Netherlands bulbs that are treated so they will bloom at Christmas. So oh my goodness. That's not really clear about that. So I would say look for, always look for a bulb that says Christmas blooming, which so if you want that. If that's what you want. If that's what you're looking, yeah, yeah, for holiday thing. Right. But honestly, yeah. So when you say, when you say Southern hemisphere, as opposed to the Netherlands, Northern hemisphere ones, it's like South Africa. Where are we talking about it there? Mostly South Africa. Some in South America, but I think most are South Africa now, but it could be, they could be grown anywhere in Southern. Okay. It's basically how they're stored and this does go back to how do we get it up all to bloom ourselves. Like they have have that rest period. So the ones in the Southern hemisphere, obviously they've been kept dormant longer and they're more likely to start blooming. I think the ones in the Netherlands, if they're Christmas blooming, if you do ever see any say a Dutch bulb, but it's still Christmas blooming, will probably bloom early January at Christmas exactly. But it's not unusual to buy an expensive bulb and have, you know, the more expensive bulbs that you see better, I will say that. I mean, people complain that I paid $35 for a bulb, but I don't know if you've noticed that, but those big bulbs, it looks like softballs, often have three buds that will come out over three or four months. So you're really getting... It. It's like you're really getting three bulbs. It's almost like you're getting three bulbs in one. Yeah, no, it's there pretty. You get what you pay for with an emerald. Yeah. And yeah, do you try to re-bloom yours or do you discard them, tell the truth? Because one of the things is that we're just're just talking about, you know, depending on where they've been prepared, so to speak, where they're coming from, you know, nursery-wise, being shipped from, which hemisphere and the conditions there, dictates when it's going to bloom. And then the next year, if you decide to keep it, at least this is in my experience, it's not the same condition. I'm not gonna be offering the same conditions that it was used to in those previous years, right? So it's gotta get used to me and decide under my protocol and my conditions when it's gonna bloom. And it's gonna take a year or two or whatever. So I'm going to think I'm failing, but it's not that. It's that it was programs, so to speak, to a different world altogether than where I am. If it came from South Africa or it came from the Netherlands, right? Right. Exactly. A lot of bulb collectors, a serious bulb collectors, talk about flipping that southern northern hemisphere time timing with their South African bulbs. So it could be any South African bulb. And they will adjust to our northern hemisphere in time. In time, but you have to be patient. So I had soft to anyone who can get an emerald's to re bloom. You can absolutely answer your question. I'm a very lazy gardener and well, I guess irresponsible. I mean, when I was growing them in in the house I could never get them to bloom. However, I do know some people that certainly can get them to bloom and good for them However with the greenhouse once I had the greenhouse. I was still a sloppy gardener and lazy and Because I'm growing so many things and occasionally an emerald is after bloom in January or February I don know where it went. It went under a bench or a fell off into a pot of lemon tree growing in a lemon tree and it was brought out in the summer and I didn't even know it was there. And I started noticing bulbs popping up in the greenhouse that dropped and started blooming the following year. And I thought, oh, I guess I can re-bloom them. Yeah. It comes down to how well you care for it.

I mean, so yeah, if you want to get your own or subloom, you absolutely can.

Just make sure, think of it as a solar panel, like as soon as it blooms, cut the stem off. They make great cut flowers too if you want to cut it before the buds open, but that helps. You want to keep that bulb really well energized. So as many leaves as possible in the brightest sun you can all winter, keep it growing through

spring and through summer and around.

And fertilize it every two or three weeks.

The really well energized. So as many leaves as possible, in the brightest sun, you can all winter. Keep it growing through spring and through summer and around. I infertilize it every two or three weeks with balance, fertilizer that I heavy feeders, you want to get a big bulb again and you don't want to starve it. These ember Ellis, anything in the ember Ellis family forms, you know, the embryonic flower buds, like one, two, sometimes three years in advance, deep inside that bulb. Wow. Oh, if for some reason, you know, that bulb sent up three flower buds, it might not the next year or maybe it has two more in there, ready to come out that started forming. So similar to agapantus do the same thing or in the reeds, but, um, most likely you will get at least one flower bud that next year. And maybe if you kept it on that cycle again. But around August, you want to stop watering it and then give it a rest this dry. And it should be like a six to ten week rest. So you probably won't be a Christmas blooming bulb again. It'll be like a February March blooming bulb. But that would be the way to do it. Just you want to really take good care of it. And again, don't think you failed if it doesn't bloom the next year, the first year, first full year with you, so to speak. If it's growing, it puts out leaves in everything. It may just take more time or give up and buy a new ball. Well, the way bombs work. I mean, to paper whites, because people always ask, I get asked, can I re-bloom a paper white? And you can. I mean, I don't know why you would want to because it's, you know, those are commercially grown, they're heavily fertilized, they're treated just the, you know, they're basically grown at like the finest hotel in the world to bloom again. But I have some in the greenhouse again that fall off the bench onto the floor and they re-bloom and you know what if you're listening and you know Arkansas or Louisiana you know that they've naturalized outdoors or a Southern California. So they are on Narcissus these are you know a daffodil basically so we know the way we're growing them putting them in rocks or in a vase with water and alcohol whatever, it's not the best conditions to treat your bulb if you want it to re-bloom again. If you do want to re-bloom, you need to plant it like a real narcissist like two inches deep in the ground and it's potting soil and fertilize it after it's bloomed and you know, it's a lot of work, so you can do.

So that crazy, the alcohol thing, I mean, that was a rage for a while. I don't know if it still is or not. I don't see about it as much as I used to years ago, but just tell us like, what was that idea, the idea that you could do them in alcohol or whatever. Yeah, I mean, when I first heard that, I thought, oh, that's just another myth or hack that it seemed crazy, but it actually

does work and then there was you know real research behind it It was a study at Cornell. I believe students at Cornell first did this You could go ahead and find out, but it was I think it's 10% alcohol Or vodka seven parts vodka any clear. Yeah, like ever clear or vodka, like, I think it's one part, like one out of seven or whatever, obviously, good exact recipe, but it does work. But the trick with it, and you see that I've seen this Instagram a lot right now is people are planting their bulbs and they're watering them with this alcohol water mixture, and that's not the way to do it, that you should plant your bulbs bulbs either in soil or in rocks or whatever way you're going to grow them and then water them with regular water until they've emerged about four inches and then start the alcohol water and that does keep them to worth you know that's the right height for your dinner table or in a window sill because you know paper whites can grow, you know, 24 inches tall and flop over.

Right. So that's the idea is that they're going to be a little drunk and they hate the case. It's not so much. It's unsure growl. So that's why you don't drink alcohol, I guess. Okay. So, do you have particular ones that you've sought out and that you grow,

and you grow them in soil, you were talking about, you know,

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