Hello and welcome to Marshall Matters with me Winston Marshall at the Spectator offices in London.

Today I'm joined by American writer, author and musician Colman Hughes.

This is a little bit different this episode because as well as Coleman being a guest on Marshall Matters, this is also being recorded for his podcast, Conversations with Coleman. So this is a joint podcast. Colman, thank you so much for having me on your show and thank you so much for coming on to mine.

Hey, Winston. It's great to be on your show and thank you so much for coming on to mine. Hey Winston, it's great to be on your show and welcome to my show.

Thank you. Yeah, I'm delighted to have you on.

I've actually been a great admirer of yours for quite some time and I think I told you this

in person when we met in New York earlier this year, but I first came across your

writing, I think it was the Quillette pieces you wrote in 2018. I was living in New York at

the time actually, and at the time, the race literature then was writers like Tannahassee

Coates and Patrice Khan Colours and I was reading

all of that and then I read your quillette pieces and a lot of references to Thomas Salle and

a completely different type of thinking and then to my surprise discovered that you were a rapper

and I shouldn't perhaps have been surprised as,

you know, you're obviously very talented guy, but you went to Juilliard and you have this huge

musical background first and foremost. I guess the surprise is that you're such a good,

you were such an impressive writer, but also such an impressive musician. I might be inventing this memory, but around that time that you would have discovered my

collette pieces, I think I remember someone showing me a picture of you with Jordan Peterson, and

you at this point were known to the world as the lead guitarist and banjoist of mumford and sons and jordan peterson was one of the

few people that really supported me and amplified my early quillette essays and was possibly the

reason even you were reading them so i could be invent that memory, but I do have a faint glimmer

of a memory of, oh, this guitar player from Mumford & Sons took a picture with Jordan Peterson.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. He came to our studio in mid-2018. We were making the record Delta,

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